Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 40 of 40

Thread: Is It REALLY Chinese?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Kansas City, KS
    Posts
    6,515
    This thread saves more incontinent seahorses and holds more honorary degrees at Ivy league colleges than Blooming Lotus. This thread rules the forum. If you don't have milk at home, this thread will come to your home and bring the milk to shoot out your nostrils. For threads like this one, Xebs minimizes the pron. This thread is really chinese, and by that, I mean this thread is superior to other, more occidental threads.
    I would use a blue eyed, blond haired Chechnyan to ruin you- Drake on weapons

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    1,386
    Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
    Single malt scotch is better than bourbon in a sports-drinking environment with commonly agreed on rules.

    In the streets, where rules don't apply, bourbon would pwnzor single malt scotch.

    Seriously, though, what's wrong with enjoying a little Maker's Mark now and again? Variety is the spice of life, ya know.
    Dude, I totally agree with this. Every now and again you just need to get that top shelf, otherwise wells are fine.

    I have several friends who are chefs. Each different type of chefs. Basically when you become a proficient cook you are not cooking a peticular type of ethnic food, you are cooking your own food. You just use the knowledge that you have gained cooking, asian, mexican, italian, so on and so forth and making a dish. Sure it can be broken down from what ingredients come from where, but it doesn't matter.

    You know what gets me? When people say well bad chinese food, is still not that bad. I totally disagree. Bad chinese food, is still bad food.

    I made pasta and curry sauce a few weeks ago. Is it Indian or is it italian? Who cares, it was delicious.
    http://www.wingchunusa.com

    Sao gerk seung siu, mo jit jiu - Hands and feet defend accordingly, there are no secret or unstoppable maneuvers.
    -Yip Man

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Kansas City, KS
    Posts
    6,515
    This thread is so chinese, awkward white kids are now loathing their own culture in order to atone for what western civilization did to this thread.
    I would use a blue eyed, blond haired Chechnyan to ruin you- Drake on weapons

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Xi'an, P.R.C.
    Posts
    1,699
    I'm glad to see the bourbon thing is being exploired so thouroughly but I really wanted to post to extend a formal thank you to MerryPrankster.


    Originally posted by Merryprankster
    Omar,

    What YOU were saying on that thread was QUITE valid. What Earth Dragon was saying was not.

    You were NOT saying the same things.
    At the time it really looked to me like we were being lumped together and I thought EarthDragon was just not expressing himself very well. I don't rememer exactly how his case was different from mine. Maybe it became clearer after I stopped paying attention to the thread. Maybe I just took some things directed at him as if they were directed at me. If so, my bad. It really bugged me at the time.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Xi'an, P.R.C.
    Posts
    1,699
    Originally posted by scotty1
    I know, I thought it might be negative sarcasm.

    lets stop here.
    Yeah it was. Read my above post and you'll know where it came from. Sorry dude. Nothing to do with you.

    p.s. No_know,

    re:
    Tai Chi Bob, do you go out and say I'll have food or do you ask for specific meals? Do they serve you whatever?
    If I can afford it, I actually DO like to let the waiter choose my meal to a large degree. I need to give it the final o.k. but often if it looks like the waiter knows what he's(she's) doing then they will know what really tastes good better than you would. Sometimes they'll just push the special(bad sign) but as a waiter myself, the occasional table who did this . . .I always really went extra out of my way to make sure they had a good experience and would also take a certain added measure of personal responsability for wether they enjoyed the food or not.

    Stangely, I think there is a paralel in good gong fu instruiction as well. When looking for a good teacher, I never ask them to please teach me this or that. I only ask for "good gong fu" and assume that they will know better than me what they have to offer me that is the best quality.
    Last edited by omarthefish; 06-09-2004 at 05:24 AM.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Where ever I Am; today, West Virginia, US of A, NA, N of EUdMexico
    Posts
    2,227
    Blog Entries
    1
    A waiter would be a good resource. They are not Just guessing so it's potluck that the meal they recommend is good. They experienced it from at least hearsay. And the cook/chef prepares meals or meal items consistantly--each has a recipe, guides which if followed get the food the same each time.

    If the cook typically burns somethhing intentionally to get what they consider the right effect, but tastes unpreferred to many who try it. That item would not likely be recommended willingly as good food.

    The Kung-Fu instructor has a recipe and determines your palette. Then proceeds to fill your cup, in a course dinner one course building upon the other.

    In both cases the recipe came from Somewhere. A grasp of from where the meal came--it's background might help one appreciate the meal more. It can taste good to great without that awareness. But spending time with someone you Know (their hurts, loves, fears, joys...) even more enhances the experience.
    There are four lights...¼ impulse...all donations can be sent at PayPal.com to qumpreyndweth@juno.com; vurecords.com

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    1,386
    Is it really chinese?

    Hey, if its not made in china, its probably made in malaysia.
    http://www.wingchunusa.com

    Sao gerk seung siu, mo jit jiu - Hands and feet defend accordingly, there are no secret or unstoppable maneuvers.
    -Yip Man

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    47,946

    ttt 4 2017

    This seems as good a place as any to post this WSJ article.

    Why Anyone Can Be Chinese
    A scholar who’s lived in China for more than two decades argues that Chinese identity should be cultural, not racial


    Daniel Bell, center, with a group of students earlier this month. PHOTO: WANG PEI

    By Daniel A. Bell
    July 14, 2017 11:11 a.m. ET

    Who is Chinese? The answer may seem simple at first: a person who looks Chinese.

    But imagine a young woman born and brought up in the U.S. Her grandmother is from China, and she happens to have inherited many of her grandmother’s physical traits. She doesn’t speak Chinese or identify in any way with Chinese culture, and she thinks of herself as a proud American. When she is called Chinese, she forcefully rejects the label.

    Or consider my own case. Canadian by birth, with Caucasian physical features, I have lived and worked in China for more than two decades, speak the Chinese language, identify with Chinese culture and am now a permanent resident of China. But almost no one considers me Chinese.

    Both of these instances point to the difficulty with a view that is deeply ingrained in contemporary China and at least implicitly endorsed elsewhere: That to be Chinese is to belong to a race.

    I feel welcomed and loved in China. My wife is Chinese, and I’ve done my best to integrate since arriving in 2004. But I can’t fully succeed. My Chinese friends sometimes call me a “Chinese son-in-law.” It’s meant as a compliment, but the implication in Chinese is that I’m not fully Chinese.

    The obstacles are not legal. It is possible to gain citizenship by marrying a Chinese person, but in practice few do. According to the 2010 census, the country’s population of 1.39 billion citizens includes just 1,448 naturalized Chinese. China does not allow dual citizenship, which makes the decision more difficult, but in principle, race is not a barrier to becoming a Chinese citizen.

    Nor is language the main obstacle to popular acceptance. My Chinese is far from perfect, but I can give academic talks in Chinese, and I can surprise taxi drivers when I call for a ride and they arrive expecting to see a Chinese customer. Millions of poorly educated Chinese citizens speak hardly any Mandarin, and yet nobody questions their Chineseness.

    It certainly isn’t any lack of commitment on my part to Chinese culture. I’ve been working on Confucian philosophy for many years, and it inspires the way I lead my life. I’m told over and over that my commitment to Chinese culture is more “Chinese” than that of many Chinese people. At conferences in China, I often find myself the only person wearing Chinese-style clothing.

    The real obstacle to popular acceptance is the assumption that Chineseness is a racial category. Stereotypes against outsiders are common in any culture, and China is no exception. Pejorative statements about non-Han Chinese can be found in ancient texts, and there have been tragic outbursts of racism in Chinese history. The Jie people, who were probably of Central Asian stock, established the Later Zhao dynasty but were massacred shortly thereafter, around A.D. 350. The killings were said to be based on their Caucasian looks, and many bearded people were killed just because they were too Jie-looking.

    But there is a more inspiring current in Chinese history as well. As the historian Yuri Pines of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem has noted, the dominant elite culture in ancient China emphasized cultural belonging, not race or ethnicity, as the most important trait for citizenship. Chinese people were those who adhered to the common ritual norms of the Zhou dynasty (1046-256 B.C.). One could learn to be Chinese.

    During much of its history, particularly the eras of prosperity and glory, China was an open society that welcomed foreigners. The Tang dynasty (A.D. 618-907) is a classic example. The capital Chang’an was a multicultural urban center with nearly a million residents and drew ambitious migrants from around the world. Its greatest generals were Turks, Koreans and Sogdians (an ancient Iranian civilization). Arab scholars could participate in the imperial examinations. Li Bai, its most famous poet, was perhaps of Central Asian stock.

    But the open attitude of the Tang dynasty eventually gave way. After the shocking rebellion of An Lushan in the 8th century and the sacking of the capital by Uighurs and Tibetans, Chinese attitudes toward outsiders took a markedly negative turn.

    This is a recurrent pattern. When China is powerful and secure, foreigners are welcome and considered employable, including at the highest levels of government. When China is weak, foreigners are often viewed with suspicion and even hatred. The most famous modern case is the Boxer Rebellion of 1899-1901, which sought to violently expel the Western and Christian presence in China.

    Indeed, China’s most insecure period was the “century of humiliation” from the 1840s to the 1940s. Chinese elites came to realize that not only was China not the center of the world, it was a weak country unable to stand up for itself. China lost wars to Western countries and Japan, and its territory was carved up by foreign powers.

    It was in the wake of these events that a race-based conception of Chinese identity took hold. Leading reformers of the day, such as the scholar and political thinker Kang Youwei, traveled the world and came to the pessimistic conclusion that different races were engaged in a deadly struggle for survival. They saw Chinese identity as the legitimate racial basis for a nation-state that could take its place against other similarly constituted nations.

    That legacy still shapes attitudes today. But China has rebuilt a strong and powerful state, with less to fear from foreign bullying, and it has become a key player in our vast, cosmopolitan world economy. To my mind, China has reached a point in its history when it can return to a more generous conception of identity and embrace those who meet the cultural criteria of Chineseness.

    There are also pragmatic grounds for such a shift. Yan Xuetong, a leading theorist of international relations at Tsinghua University, argues that China should employ more foreigners as public officials and put them on the road to citizenship. Once China passes a necessary threshold of hard power, he says, China should compete for human talent rather than for economic or military superiority.

    A meritocratic immigration policy open to all, regardless of ethnic or racial background, would also serve China’s economic interests. The now-discarded one-child policy has created a demographic bulge, with the elderly constituting an ever-growing proportion of the population. The country would greatly benefit from the contributions of talented young migrants from around the world.

    President Xi Jinping describes his broad agenda for the country as the “China dream.” My own China dream is more modest: to be viewed as a Chinese not just in my own mind but in the minds of my fellow Chinese.

    — Dr. Bell is dean of the school of political science and public administration at Shandong University and a professor at Tsinghua University. His most recent book is “The China Model.”
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    CA, USA
    Posts
    4,900
    If he's really as happy there in China as he says he is, why not just be happy and leave it at that? Why is it so important for him that people think he's Chinese? Why not accept himself for who and what he is?

    It's kinda funny; in Canada, he probably never thought that probably most white Americans (and probably Canadians) think of Asian-Americans as 'foreign', even if their families are thoroughly integrated and have been here for more than 120 to 150 years. I'm sure back then it never even crossed his mind. Yet he expects everyone in China to change their perception of him and accept him as a Chinese right now.

    There are also Westerners in Japan who act more Japanese than Japanese. I believe that Donn Draeger was considered as an American samurai in Japan. IDK if that was just an honorary title or not. But there are many who always want to dress in traditional garb and act like Japanese did 100 years ago, including the old mannerisms. Some native English speakers start trying to speak it with a 'Japanese accent', lol. Maybe it's for a genuine love of the culture, but in some cases it's just trying too hard to be something they're not.

    I'm Japanese-American, but I know I will NEVER be a native Japanese, nor would I ever be viewed as one in Japan, even if I spent years living there trying to assimilate and acting more 'Japanese' than them. Just like the Japanese-Brazilians are not treated as 'real' Japanese in Japan. Just be happy and accept who you are.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 07-18-2017 at 03:41 PM.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    47,946

    I'm Asian American too, Jimbo. I feel ya.

    Here's more:
    07/21/2017 05:36 pm ET | Updated 2 days ago
    A White Person Wrote ‘Why Anyone Can Be Chinese,’ And It’s A Checklist In Privilege
    “My own China dream is more modest: to be viewed as a Chinese not just in my own mind but in the minds of my fellow Chinese,” a white man writes in an op-ed.
    By Kimberly Yam


    TEKINTURKDOGAN VIA GETTY IMAGES
    A white scholar’s recent op-ed suggests he might need some lessons on his own privilege.

    Daniel Bell, a white dean at China’s Shandong University, recently penned a piece in the Wall Street Journal entitled “Why Anyone Can Be Chinese.” In it, he laments how he’s not considered Chinese despite his self-proclaimed dedication to the culture.

    China, he argues, should look at identity as cultural rather than racial, concluding the piece with his ultimate hope:

    “President Xi Jinping describes his broad agenda for the country as the ‘China dream,’” Bell writes. “My own China dream is more modest: to be viewed as a Chinese not just in my own mind but in the minds of my fellow Chinese.”

    Bell claims to have respect for the Chinese. But his piece shows that he’s not looking at identity through the lens of the Chinese, John Kuo Wei Tchen, associate professor and director of Asian/Pacific/American Institute, NYU, told HuffPost.

    Bell begins his piece, making comparisons between himself and a Chinese-American who “doesn’t speak Chinese or identify in any way with Chinese culture,” and “forcefully rejects” the label “Chinese.”

    But the connections Bell makes are apples to oranges. Bell, a white man from Canada, ignores the real, human experiences that Chinese people live through, Tchen noted.

    Bell isn’t someone whose family has been brought up in China through generations, communicating through insider references. His ancestors haven’t lived through events like the Opium Wars or the Cultural Revolution that have shaped the population’s outlook. Bell is a white man whose roots and values come from elsewhere.

    There’s another issue at hand with Bell’s comparison. Ideas of belonging and identity are tied to political environment, Tchen says. These concepts are forged out of history and traditions, constructed over time by cultural and political forces. A western view of these ideas will be different from, say, a Chinese one. Bell doesn’t seem to acknowledge that, though.

    “Notions of citizenship and belonging come out of particular political cultures. Just because that’s what he believes in, he wants to apply that to China which doesn’t really make any sense,” Tchen said. “It can’t just be willy-nilly applied to any other place.”

    Bell continues his argument, listing several traits of his that he believes somehow underscore his “Chineseness.” Though he brings up possible barriers to acceptance like citizenship, commitment to culture, and lack of language skills, he insists those aren’t problems for him. He points out how he’s often “the only person wearing Chinese-style clothing” at conferences. And earlier in the piece he mentions his marriage to a Chinese woman as if those details help assert Chineseness.

    In another line, he even puts down native Chinese people and pretentiously writes, “millions of poorly educated Chinese citizens speak hardly any Mandarin, and yet nobody questions their Chineseness.”

    However, identity isn’t so simple as checking traits off a list, Tchen said. Bell’s possession of such qualities does not make him more “eligible” to be Chinese.

    To be Chinese is not a mere checklist, just like being black or from any other culture isn’t about hitting a set number of achievements.

    “If he were to become an expert on Toni Morrison, if he were to then master African-American cuisine, if he had married an African-American woman, would he feel he can claim being African-American or black?” Tchen questioned.

    At one point, Bell attempts to point out the flaws in seeing Chineseness as racial and describes the country’s tumultuous relationship with foreigners.

    “When China is powerful and secure, foreigners are welcome and considered employable, including at the highest levels of government,” he wrote in the op-ed. “When China is weak, foreigners are often viewed with suspicion and even hatred.”

    Tchen told HuffPost that he agrees that ideally, we “need to reject the very notion of ‘race’ and hence racial belonging.” These ideas don’t translate across historical and cultural differences, he says. But again, being part of a culture is dependent on historical context. Identity goes further than today’s politics and culture.

    At the end of the day, Bell’s piece begs the question posed by Tchen.

    “Are there not deeper shared values that are more important to explore than a European Canadian wanting to be accepted as ‘Chinese?’”
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •