Trigrams help

[mantis108]

I accidentally stumbled on this interesting thread. Quite a few good input already. Count's work on the charts are well done.

I Ching trains the mind to function intuitively (key component for devination/prediction). Abstract thinking and fussy logic serve as the base. The first step towards that is to learn drawing the trigrams. This exercise is often omitted these days but is most important in developing a healthy foundation for future studies. By learning to draw the trigrams and arrange them in Bagua diagrams (landscaping and mapping), one would learn the delicately balance between spatial-temporal relations (physics) and the mind (metaphysics).

Without imagination, even if you have all the technologies necessary, you can not colonize Mars. But in order to do that, you first need to draw the plans. This is no difference in studying the I Ching.

Mantis108

[Draven Scorpius]

A very good book on trigrams and Bagua techniques:
Baguazhang
Emei Baguazhang
-Theory and Applications-
by Master Liang, Shou-Yu & Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming & Mr. Wu, Wen-Ching

[Buddy]

That book is crap. There is no direct corrolation between baguazhang and the trigrams. You'll understand baguazhang much better with correct instruction and practice than ever with philospohy.
I agree with Bob as to the basic idea of the three lines of any trigram. Heaven, Earth, Man. They can also mean any triad you might think of, past present future what ever. Look at this yin/yang theory as simply trying to descibe the various phenomona of the universe and it's potential and tendancy to change. While a trigram may have a certain basic meaning it all has to do with context. For instance "li" or fire...does it mean fire as in burning or does it mean bright as in illuminating?

[count]

Even simpler than that Buddy. "Rising" as in the direction of the heat. I agree with your direction of focusing on yin yang theory though and IMO about the Yang book.

[Buddy]

Rising...excellent point.

[herb ox]

those are some strong words for a book written by some pretty respected and well known masters. Granted, a book's title does not always ring true to the content, but personally, I try to read as many books as possible - even if they look like crap. I've found gems in photocopied Ninjutsu manuals while working at K!nk@$.

[Buddy]

Crap, crap, crap. Mr. Yang is a White Crane guy and Mr. Liang is a Shaolin guy. Both adept, I am sure, at their respective arts, but it ain't Bagua. The form Mr. Liang identifies as "Emei" is actually a standardized set developed by Li Tianji based on Sun Style. Ain't no Emei about it.

[herb ox]

hmmm... interesting - you do realize that Sun Lutang was a baguazhang adept? As for Liang Shou Yu, he is of the E-mei /O-mei/ Ermei lineage (see http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/maga...hp?article=127 ) - his daughter Helen does some of the most graceful bagua and hsing-i - quite powerful, at least in the sense of instantly captivating the hearts of young men who are lucky enough to see her in action!

Regardless, I don't mean to lead the subject off topic. This is the TCM forum, after all.

apologies,

herb ox

[GeneChing]

Liang is clearly Emei, although I could easily see where the mistake could be made. The roots of Emei lay in Shaolin and Wudang, so you still see those elements. Sichuan also 'benefitted' from the CR in the same way that Taiwan and HK did, martially speaking. Many refugee masters fled there, bringing an infusion of new lineages into the area in the last generation.

Baguazhang and Baguaquan are physical and martial expressions of bagua theory. I don't think you need to know bagua theory to understand either martial art superficially. But I do beleive that it's a mandatory study if you're going to pull anything deep out of it. Bagua philosophy need not be explicit in the martial art, at least not explicit like you'd put it into words, but just like five elements is to xingyi - it is the cipher to the style's curriculum.

BTW, here's Liang's Bagua book - to be honest, I haven't read it. But I enjoyed his xinyi book very much - it's one of the best in English.