Kung Fu and the UFC, which is more reality based?

[blooming lotus]

well appologies.injured and tired............



oh for an intellegent nuetral coversation

[cerebus]

Unfortunately BL, you'll probably never find an intelligent conversation since that would require that you first be intelligent yourself.

[blooming lotus]

you're so grown and mature ..................................... thk god for you.....................

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Tak
On the rare occassion that one of my hung gar or wing chun friends do want to spar -- and boy do we have to tone it down -- they have NEVER pulled off any crane techniques or tiger claws to my face, ect

This problem is easily fixed. Take the gloves off. I have used tiger claw techniques, snake techniques, crane techniques and taiji techniques in sparring (do so regularly, especially the tiger stuff) when I have sparred bare handed. In the kwoon - where gloves are mandatory - I have not.

[SimonM]

I would rather bereak a bone, render them unconsciou, etc. than rip their flesh.

Fine, practice Tiger style and you have those tools as well. The first Tiger derived pattern I learned contained at least two arm breaks and one knee dislocation/break. This is why it is important for a sifu to train applications - so people realize what they know!

[SimonM]

Reemul, please don't feed the troll any more, his vitriol is making my head hurt.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by SimonM
Fine, practice Tiger style and you have those tools as well. The first Tiger derived pattern I learned contained at least two arm breaks and one knee dislocation/break. This is why it is important for a sifu to train applications - so people realize what they know!

sure you have them... in form.... karate has plenty of throws and locks in the kata, but how many exponents train them regularly?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by SimonM
This problem is easily fixed. Take the gloves off. I have used tiger claw techniques, snake techniques, crane techniques and taiji techniques in sparring (do so regularly, especially the tiger stuff) when I have sparred bare handed. In the kwoon - where gloves are mandatory - I have not.

I'm not sure that fixes it... there are plenty of venues where the gloves are such that those techniques can be done, and those techniques, with the exception of an eye gouge, are not banned. Still, you do not see them being done.

[SimonM]

The thing is Sevenstar that a lot of those moves are barred in the UFC, the competition we are discussing. Some of them, OK, I admit should not be allowed in competition (eye gouges) but others (head butts, downward striking elbows - I'd restrict them from hitting the head but, come on, body shots of that sort shoud be allowed - small joint locks) they should be allowed as there are plenty of non-lethal applications.

As for the gloves issue, I have seen the UFC and I know that they wear grappling gloves. What it comes down to is that I find the extra agility to move from fist to claw to spear in a split second if necessary is easier to come by without gloves of any type on. Perhaps as I improve that will become less of an issue but for now, removing the gloves and going bare-handed works best for using techniques that often don't occur in sparring. I can only speak from personal experience.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by SimonM
The thing is Sevenstar that a lot of those moves are barred in the UFC, the competition we are discussing. Some of them, OK, I admit should not be allowed in competition (eye gouges) but others (head butts, downward striking elbows - I'd restrict them from hitting the head but, come on, body shots of that sort shoud be allowed - small joint locks) they should be allowed as there are plenty of non-lethal applications.

downward elbows are allowed, just not to the base of the neck. the shoulder and ankle are small enough joints - you really don't need fingers and wrists, IMO. When you're on the ground and I have you controlled, I can pull off finger locks quite rapidly - maybe faster than you can tap. That's probably why they aren't allowed.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by SevenStar
the shoulder and ankle are small enough joints - you really don't need fingers and wrists, IMO.

Yes but this thread is: Kung Fu and the UFC, which is more reality based? In a fight, a wrist or finger lock provides safer, more effective control of an opponent than an elbow or shoulder lock. It is more reality-based. I KNOW that my sifu teaches both wrist and finger locks (and yes I have both done and have had done on me wrist and finger locks) if UFC disallows these not-particularly-dangerous moves, it makes it less reality based on that score.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by reemul
you have just stated an oppinion based on your limited exposure to MA.

And what is your MA background and experience?

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by reemul
As for ripping out windpipes the answer is none. But I have wrapped my fingers around a few, touching my thumb and fingers together behind it. This is the equivalent of you putting someone in an armbar and applying pressure, but not breaking the arm.

No, it is not equivalent. Most people in MMA have either done or witnessed the techniques being taken to the point of breakage, usually more than once. My guess is that you have NEVER actually witnessed someone ripping out or crushing someone else's windpipe.

BTW, I'd be willing to bet you've never actually touched your thumb and fingers togeter behind someone's trachea.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by reemul
You don't know what I study, how I study, or how I condition.

Maybe you could enlighten us on the specifics of your training so we might be able to give a little more credence to your statements.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
No, it is not equivalent. Most people in MMA have either done or witnessed the techniques being taken to the point of breakage, usually more than once. My guess is that you have NEVER actually witnessed someone ripping out or crushing someone else's windpipe.

I'm not sure why you think there's such a difference between these two examples. Can you elaborate?