Emei/Omei Region

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


This topic will be an off-shoot of a discussion regarding Snake Body going on in the Weng Chun Sup Yat thread!


So, there are some who do not want to believe there is a possible connection with Emei and Wing Chun. This info. is not designed to try and persuade anyone but give a bit of info. I found when I started to look into that theory and why I think its more likely!


I started to look into different art that show roots in that region. After that I looked into their engine/details. We can use a few systems or methods as examples;


Ba Gwa: This art often claims roots in Emei region and various lineages state different descriptions regarding the body/engine! You can hear the body/engine often described as Snake Body by Park Bok Nam and other groups. You can hear the body/engine descrbed to as Swimming Body by the Gao people. You can hear the body/engine described to as Swimming Dragon by other groups! All coming from Emei!

Zhuang: Yee Chuan grandmaster Wang Xiang Zhai (while not emei but a good connection) states: The body is like a swimming Dragon and if Miao Shun own knowledge was Emei Zhuang then thats a good sign!

Yuen Kay San lineage: Although not claiming to be an Emei based art we can see in some writing that they also state; Swimming Dragon is memory serves me correctly and Rene can probally help me out if I am wrong!

So, if almost all Wing Chun claim to be a combo of Snake and Crane then would it be that the Snake is really the body and the Crane is the boxing? Many people say when asked about what is snake and what is crane this;

Biu Jee is a Snake and Bong Sao is Crane!


Well, I just can't go along with that as so many south fist arts have and use the term/skill of Biu Jee. Southern Praying Mantis uses that exact term for the skill so is the Biu Jee of Mantis Snake evidence in them?

Recently I recieved some footage of Fukien Crane and while the Ging was different from Wing Chun the hand skills were remarkable similar to Leung Jan's teaching. My sifu and I sat down and watched it and he also feels there has to be some sort of connection. I sent this footage to Hendrik and he was the one who told me it was Eating crane as I would have thought it was Eternal Crane and then I would have been die hard believer but even tho its not I can easily see we must have roots in Fukien region.


So, if Miao Shun was the person who combined his own knowledge (which could be Emei Zhuang as Hendrik claims and as the Yuen Kay San lineage claim minus the Emei info and replace it with his own knowledge) with the Ng Mui art which would be White Crane then doesn't show a more likely possiblilty?


Thoughts?

[yuanfen]

Good post Jim. But "history" is tricky business and I like to stick close to the art-occasionally looking to history only when it informs the art.

We area long ways from having a definitive history of wing chun-
in a way approaching existing good scholarship on taiji.

Correct- that tong long spm also uses the concept of biu jee- from their own platform. I know that you know Hagood but I really respect Mark Sifu's spm. Somehwere I have a video of him at a demo briefly showing biu work. I dont know of any tonglong connection to emei. And tonglong may be of more recent temple origin than wc.

But Hendrik's explanation of the synthesis of Fukien(crane) and emei(snake) elements in wing chun motion makes sense to me.

However- coiling is well known in Chen village taiji and that is pretty north of emei.

Sometimes great ideas can be independently arrived at in quite different places- without having a direct causal connection.

On the bong-crane and the biu snake-they can make some historical sense but the developed synthesis in wing chun leaves separate constituent factors behind. Bong can turn into biu and vice versa.

No dogma -just commenting on your post.

[Jim Roselando]

Hey Joy,


Thanks for the reply/thoughts! Good stuff!


Yes! Chen also coils as does some other Rou Jing arts.


There are only so many ways to power the human body! Be it with soft or hard mechanics etc.. Certain things will indeed cross over between systems. When I visited Chen Zheng Lei and Wang Hun Jai of the Chen village the suspended body (and how they powered their methods) was a good indicator or the art being Rou Jing. Shaolin arts also have their signatures!


So, for it to be Shaolin or whatever one just need look at the core and cross reference it with other that share same core. Thats why when I read what Hendrik stated in a discussion about knowing what cup you drink is an important point and why I start this off-shoot thread so we can all chat about it!


Regards,

[yylee]

Originally posted by Jim Roselando

Biu Jee is a Snake and Bong Sao is Crane!

Jim, IMO if Snake is the body, then it should apply to both Bong and Biu Jee, sound logical? So the energy body is not restricted by any one technique.

And, where can you find snake/worm like gradual movements in your WC training?

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yuanfen

However- coiling is well known in Chen village taiji and that is pretty north of emei.

Joy,

Chen Taiji's stuffs has a different characteristic with the emei stuffs.

Eventhougth, there is coiling. There are different way of coil.

Emei's characteristics with snake/worm gradual movement of finger/body coiling is unique.


just somethought

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yylee



And, where can you find snake/worm like gradual movements in your WC training?

every move in WC is snake/worm coiling. hahahhaaa. unless you dont do WCK

So now you use my energy body term too. hahahahaha. watch out for our NDA

[yylee]

Originally posted by Phenix


So now you use my energy body term too. hahahahaha. watch out for our NDA

your energy body term? I thought these terms have been around for 800 yrs. Where were you 800 years ago?

[reneritchie]

Some of our Kuen Kuit include:

Arms like Swimming Dragons
Body Like Standing Crane
Steps like Wheels of a Cart
Stance like Flexible Scissors

[reneritchie]

We also do everything with twisting power. I've not seen this in other branches, however (I don't remember if Koo Lo does this?)

[yuanfen]

"Eventhougth, there is coiling. There are different way of coil."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
((Hendrik- sure. My caveat was about generalizing by word usage.))joy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We also do everything with twisting power. I've not seen this in other branches, ..."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
((Rene- again depending on the details of the meaning of "twist"..
may not be as limited as implied above.))joy

[yylee]

Originally posted by reneritchie
We also do everything with twisting power. I've not seen this in other branches, however (I don't remember if Koo Lo does this?)

Rene, sometimes I wonder, if it is gradual and "Rou", the twisting/coiling/snake/worm movements may not be so obvious to the observer. It is like saying: Sifu is doing what he says he is doing, but the un-trained eyes cannot see it....

just some thoughts.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yylee


your energy body term? I thought these terms have been around for 800 yrs. Where were you 800 years ago?

YY,

800 years ago? Gold Summit of Emei. Temple of Gold Summit, pray to Shamantabadra Boddhisatva. hehehhe

OK,

Simple, NDA and DNA are using the same alphabet.

If you believe that is the 800years DNA then I will not patten it.
If you believe that I make these all up with Rene then I patten the heck out of it and then you need to sign and value the NDA. heheheheh.

See, your choice. DNA or NDA. hahahaha.

Rene, we will be rich to collect the SLT snake sliding/cocoon moving booster pack key (similar to the Yugioh booster pack ). which promise and guarentee will boost any SLT practitioner's performence by atleast 2x and more once for all in 4 hours, doesnt matter if you train for 1 week in WCK or 100 years (oops those will be dead already ) . And it is money back guareentee. Let everyone sign NDA. hahahha.

we can IPO this SLT booster pack start up. See, I guess there will be say about 1.5 million people doing SLT? So, each will besay 400 bucks. if collect too little people will not value it. so collect more is better.

And the booster pack comes with pack 1, 2, and 3. So, each for 400bucks. and since all sign NDA. they can't teach to others. The new comers also needs to pay. So hahhahaha rich man. selling booster pack.

hahhahaa. YY, dreaming and I must be dreaming. I think that song is sang by the carpenters?

Ok, accept it as DNA, and I give it out free. Pack 1, 2, 3. and you only have to come to San Jose and give me 4 hours of your life. hehehehe

Oh by the way, you have to sign an agreement that you always has to believe in NG MUi and Niu Shuun creat this SLT art from emei. HOw about that free. instant atleast 2x boost in 4 hours. drive down to San Jose. you got a GPS? I can sell you one too. if you need one. the SLT booster pack GPS.

I am in China tonight nah not going to go out for singing KTV but thinking this IPO selling booster pack. Call it Booster CUP. what the heck. hehehhe.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by yuanfen

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
((Hendrik- sure. My caveat was about generalizing by word usage.))joy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Joy,

Understood! hehehehe.


coil coil .....

Upside down
Boy, you turn me
inside out
and round and round...

that must be from Diana Ross.

[yylee]

>>Ok, accept it as DNA, and I give it out free. Pack 1, 2, 3. and you only have to come to San Jose and give me 4 hours of your life. hehehehe

-- no need to go to San Jose la, let's start a web site and sell all 4 volumes of the patented snake/coil/worm/twist SLT DVD. Guarentee boost power by 2x in 3 weeks, guarentee 3 million copies sold by the end of 2004. Also offers 4 hr private lessons, KFO members will have 5% discount plus Hendrik's autograph T-Shirt after the lession .... ah.... can have certified instructor cla$$es too. Yearly instructor certificate training camp held in Golden Summit......

[reneritchie]

" ((Rene- again depending on the details of the meaning of "twist"..
may not be as limited as implied above.))joy"

Sorry, I should say the way we do it I've not seen elsewhere.

"Rene, sometimes I wonder, if it is gradual and "Rou", the twisting/coiling/snake/worm movements may not be so obvious to the observer. "

The way we do it is obvious and needs to be, so if others did it, it would also be obvious. It's like the 1-fist-distance YJKYM. Other's might KY, but it's pretty easy to see if they're not doing it it one-fist, 'specially if you could drive an Austin... er BMW Mini twixt their legs.