Fights go to the ground

[reemul]

2 years is still a begginer

The meaning of the statement is thus:

It does not imply ones lack of ability to fight. You may simply have natural ability to do so.

It does however imply that as KF instructors are concerned(particulary old school instructors) that you do not after only 2 years possess or understand a significant amount of material within the system of study to be considered an advanced student of KF.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by LEGEND
There are HS wrestlers after 2 months of training can slam the hell out a average berate joe.

2 Months?

Then they are just violent young men who are now in better shape. From 0 - 2 months does not a wreckin' machine make.

[yenhoi]

One 2-3 hours lesson with an unskilled person can a wrekin machine make. What you train and how you train make huge differences in what skilled results we obtain. The mettle of the individuals and the relatinship with instructors cant be undervalued either, buts its really all about what/how you train. 2 months of wrasslin training is alot.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by yenhoi
One 2-3 hours lesson with an unskilled person can a wrekin machine make.

Baka

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by yenhoi
2 months of wrasslin training is alot.

Not really.

[LEGEND]

"Then they are just violent young men who are now in better shape. From 0 - 2 months does not a wreckin' machine make."

lol at the exclusion of techniques. Doubt the folkstyle wrestling...doesn't mean much to me cause the more doubters mean the less knowledge.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by LEGEND
"Then they are just violent young men who are now in better shape. From 0 - 2 months does not a wreckin' machine make."

lol at the exclusion of techniques. Doubt the folkstyle wrestling...doesn't mean much to me cause the more doubters mean the less knowledge.

Care to try that one in English?

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by unkokusai
Care to try that one in English?

No?

[AmanuJRY]

There are four primary ranges in fighting (some break this up into more, but these are the logical divisions, IMO);

Kick range
Punch range
Clinch, elbow, in-fighting range
and
Ground fighting

Any serious Martial Artist will follow a training program that addresses each of these ranges, even if one is your most devistating. A lot of schools, particularly traditional ones do not nessisarily address all of them, if not, start building your own program and see what you can discover about each range.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by unkokusai
No?

I see.

[reemul]

In the case of old school KF ground fighting is addressed in a different manner than what is taught in grappling schools.

Take ju jitstu for instance, (please correct me if I'm wrong) but my observation is that they use attack/counter attack methodology. For certain attacks there are specific counters.

In contrast a KF practioners do not train with this methodology particularly the advanced practioners. The basics of KF should have familiarized the practioner with body mechanics as well as some techniques to illustrate possibilities. The result should be an individual style that allows improvisation without effort, regardless of the range in which the fight takes place.

One other note:
KF technique when it comes to grappling do not hinge on the appendages. They may pull on ribs or do windpipe grabs and such.

[Aqira]

Thinking about if fights go to the ground or not, as well as thinking about the % of them and who trains what all adds up to limited thinking.
Martial arts is not about limited thinking, I would say before you train anything you need to retrain your thinking.

[Samurai Jack]

Take ju jitstu for instance, (please correct me if I'm wrong) but my observation is that they use attack/counter attack methodology. For certain attacks there are specific counters.

Okay, you're wrong. It's true that many traditional styles drill basic techniques and principles quite alot, but this is nothing new really. Boxers hit the heavy and the speed bag, shadow box, and do light sparring. Karateka learn basic punches, blocks and kicks, hit the makiwara etc. Wing Chun guys practice thier basic punches and kicks, chi sao, wooden dummy etc. I think you get the picture.

The basics of KF should have familiarized the practioner with body mechanics as well as some techniques to illustrate possibilities. The result should be an individual style that allows improvisation without effort, regardless of the range in which the fight takes place.

Same exact thing for traditional jujutsu. The training methodolgy moves from basic material, to more advanced applications, to improvisation through fluency. It's the one thing you can count on every martial art doing the same way because it's how humans are biologically wired to learn a new skill.

[racerexx]

Does your school practice applications from the forms? Are there any take downs or throws in your forms? How about Chin-Na locking techniques to unbalance. Surely there are sweeps and such.

If you practice applying these techniques and having them done to you, you should have some experience going to the ground and grounding someone else. Grappling does not just tech how to do a take down but also how to not be taken down.

If not you should deffinatley cross train with some grapplers in your area. Also San Shou has good closing/jamming/clinching and take downs and should provide a good realistic feel as to what will and will not work for you.

As for my self, I have seen fights not go to the ground and have been in a few (unfortunately) that have not gone to the ground, but on average most I've wittnessed or had the misfortune to be involed in have either gone to the ground completely or one person going the ground.

['MegaPoint]

It is true that most fights end up on the ground. Probably something like 80% of them. I don't know about the > than 90% range often cited by ground gamers. If you added the fact that often the victor and loser will end up in a clinch, like a double headlock while on your knees (turtle position), with one cat being pretty beaten, or if one guy goes to his knees from being staggered or KO'd, then I guess that that figure of 90% can be correct.

I do know that about 99% of fights start on your feet. If you know how to keep it there then you may never have to worry about advanced ground fighting strategies. Learning to sprawl or using tactics like the cross-face (blade of the forearm brace), countering shoots with flying knees, meeting a low tackle with a modifed Naihanchi stance crouch and push, using guillotines and underhooks- so on, is the key to learning to keep the fight standing. You must train these techs real time, starting at half-speed then working up to the full bum rush.

I think if you wrestled as a kid, played a lot of football, did Judo or BJJ then you have an advantage in the rasslin' deptartment. Just as with the pure strikers though, pure grapplers are at a distinct disadvantage on the street because you do want to keep street fights on your feet as much as possible. Being well rounded in fighting and life, with one area of expertise, should be everyone's aim. If it isn't then you don't understand what it is to "CYA" or Cover Your A$$.

Keep it up, the training and the fighting. Remember easy chokes you can do with your hands, especially against an untrained street fighter. In the first scenario I mentioned, where you are on the ground in a double head lock, remember that it is easier in that instance to just reach around with your hand and effect a blood choke with your fingers. Much easier than trying to choke someone out with a headlock.

Go train... The right way!