What does Dim Mak mean to you?

[lawrenceofidaho]

Dhira,

when you climb into the ring with him, just hope that you are not one of the (unlucky) 40%, that his techniques work against.



-Lawrence

[blooming lotus]

look.everyone knows the benifits of acupuncture, and whether or not you understand the origin of how these meridians and even chi came about, it's just a variation of the same concept.........here in China pressure points are a daily part of life.mothers massaging their kids, stimulating various points for development and healing, boys in the school yard ( or class room ) playing gongfu techs and testosterone exchange, daily therapy, as a bath or a regular western unwind session is used here..............

[CFT]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
look.everyone knows the benifits of acupuncture, and whether or not you understand the origin of how these meridians and even chi came about, it's just a variation of the same concept.........here in China pressure points are a daily part of life.mothers massaging their kids, stimulating various points for development and healing, boys in the school yard ( or class room ) playing gongfu techs and testosterone exchange, daily therapy, as a bath or a regular western unwind session is used here..............

I don't question the efficacy of accupuncture or other accupoint practices. I just object to the pseudo-science used to justify why and how they work.

It is conceivable that one day the whole TCM/accupoint theory can be described using "conventional" medicine theories.

Why should we accept the idea of an immeasureable energy (chi) that resides in the body? If it can be scientifically proved that it is some kind of bio-chemical potential that can be manipulated consciously then I have no problem with it.

The problem I have with chi/accupoint techniques is that they can be reproduced by people who have no belief in them. They just hit with good body structure at the right time and place.

[AmanuJRY]

"It is conceivable that one day the whole TCM/accupoint theory can be described using "conventional" medicine theories." - CFT

When westerners were still arguing about the validity of "conventional" medicine theories, the accupoint/accupuncture theory was in wide practice in china. Maybe it's not that chi theories need to be described in conventional terms, but that conventional terms need to be altered (as they have in the past) to accomodate new theories.

"Why should we accept the idea of an immeasureable energy (chi) that resides in the body?" - CFT

immeasureable???
have you heard of Kirlian photography???
http://www.tesla.org/
There is much in this world we don't nessisarrily understand but that doesn't mean it can't be recognized or measured.

My take on it;

I believe there is truth to the theories of chi meridians and accupoint, and that this is an excellent source for wholistic health and healing. Not magic, not imaginary.
There are three main systems in the human body necisarry for suvival and health; The Nervous system, The Circulatory system and the Lymph system. All three of these need to work together, and "cross paths" so to speak. One affects the other, i.e. - lack of blood flow causes the nervous system to malfunction (sleeper hold = pass out. can this be classified as dim mak?), or a strike to a nerve causing reduced circulation.
The link to the Lymph system is more obscure, as many lay-persons are not as familiar with it's role in health, but as many know it is a bad scene when cancer cells reach the Lymph system.

As far as a "death touch", possible, but not likly in a straight up combat situation. Too many variables and conditions (let alone the time and energy spent to train it, could be better spent on just defeating your opponent in stead of "killing" him).
But....the use of the knowledge of pressure points has helped me escape some holds and could lead to a weakening of a larger opponent's ability, i.e. - by striking (with a punch, palm, biu or even pheonix eye punch) a nerve plexus in the arm (to weaken punching ability), leg (to weaken stance) or body (to weaken core muscle groups).
This is what I find useful about Dim Mak, but I believe the real study of it's principals be applied to healing not hurting (unless necisarry) and definatly not a delayed "killing".

[blooming lotus]

look.believe it or don't.have too many other "real" things to think about.......... I'm not here to convince you but if you want some info I can provide you some.or hey.sit in your naive, "this jus aint real" world and we'll aLL CONTINUE ON OUR MERRY WAYS.........LATER

don't troll me.I'm prgnant and ****ed OFF!!!

you know the pm address

[blooming lotus]

ps: dim mak pricipals rely on blood qi, oxygen qi and electri-magnetic........I'm sure that'll make no sense . but pregnancy tests are not being kind, so today i don't care...good-bye

[anerlich]

The mention of dim mak means you should be very suspicious and keep your hand on your wallet.

look.everyone knows the benifits of acupuncture

Actually the benefits of acupuncture are far from universally recognized by healing professionals.

[Miles Teg]

"Actually the benefits of acupuncture are far from universally recognized by healing professionals".


LOL It sure didnt help my dad give up smoking!


(Fortunately he gave up after getting the flu though)

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Miles Teg
"It sure didnt help my dad give up smoking!"
(Fortunately he gave up after getting the flu though)

I really don't see how going to an acupuncturist to quit smoking is logical.

It's kinda like going to a mechanic to get rid of the country music in your car.

Although acupuncture is assosiated to energy flow in the body and that energy flow is what makes the gears in our brains work, I don't believe that it can re-route the neural pathways that form the habits we have, only hard work and effort (and maybe hypnotherapy).

"Actually the benefits of acupuncture are far from universally recognized by healing professionals." - anerlich

But they are being widely accepted by people seeking health.
I think health professionals are both sceptic (good) and maybe just a little scared/jealous (bad), 'cause there is obviously both some truth and still some mystery to chineese medicine.

[blooming lotus]

fair enough.I did the same trip pre-dim-mak study myself.....and I know that the smoking treatment does more than focus your awareness, but what are you all saying here....that tcm is sh*t?????.well I say your practioners or even yourselves are just not half as adept as you thought you were.................these folks know medicine and bodily functions on a more ntimate level than western medicine ever will...goddammed die western infoed products...........................peace.what ever works..

but I'd never see a western doctor if a tcm was available./chemicals and placeboes.??????????have a wan*.I'll just take the most natural way thx.........


then I don't have bs side - effects to come back and bite me on the as* later..............as is ALWAYS the case with 1/2 ie western medicinial "advice"


fair enough............wtf eva

[AmanuJRY]

blooming lotus,

The topic was about dim mak (or variations of) not on whether or not TCM is valid or not. I don't believe I have posted in opposition to it.

I am in large favor of wholistic and alternative medicine, but I can't deny the effect of western medicine either. As far as side effects, there may not be any from things such as accupuncture or accupressure (unless done wrong) but as far as herbal medicine goes there is. And personally I believe that psychology plays a part in this - i.e. belief is power, and if you believe TCM works, it will. If you believe western medicine will have overwelming negitive side-effects it will. Why do you think they use a placebo in testing? To filter out the effects of individual psychology.

At any rate, I'm not baggin on Chineese/wholistic medicine.
Just tryin' to discuss how/when these principles can be used, realistically, in martial art applications.

[Miles Teg]

AmanuJRY

I dont know the connection mate, you're probably right. In NZ many accupuncture clinics seem to promote it as part of their product offering. I know a few others who have done it to give up smoking as well - all unsuccessful.
I know from having giving up myself that it has to come from within you and you have to have a strong desire to give up - its all psycological. I had tried hypnotism to nicotine patches - didnt work.

[blooming lotus]

the point is that dim-mak and point striking applicative to martial arts wouldn't exist if tcm , meridians etc didn't first............just the destructive side of healing............pretty standard practice in many parts of the world

[anerlich]

I'm prgnant and ****ed OFF!!!

While not wanting to dismiss the gravity of your situation, you did bag me once for swearing ("WTF") on this forum. I'm hardly a prude, but at least practise what you preach before lecturing others.

I hope your situation turns out to be a positive one for you. My wife was unable to have children, and fertility is not possible for every female. Count your blessings at least.

the point is that dim-mak and point striking applicative to martial arts wouldn't exist

In my opinion they don't, other than the obvious weak points of the human body that every boxer or kickboxer knows about. All the TCM-related esoteric stuff is highly moot.

In any case, even Dim Mak's most fervent pushers, like Erle Montaigue, say that it's completely useless unless you can fight well without it. If it exists, it's the icing on the cake, not the bread and butter.

[anerlich]

But they are being widely accepted by people seeking health.

Because something is popularly accepted amongst the uninformed or partially informed does not mean it is logically valid. Appeal to popularity.

I trained Xingyi with one of the first Westerners in Australia to be qualified as an acupuncturist, from Taiwanese and HK bodies. He attempted to treat me for a number of ailments. Complete waste of time.

Anecdotal evidence? Yes. But as valid scientifically as that of those hordes accepting it.