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Thread: OT: Cops can demand ID, high court rules

  1. #1
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    OT: Cops can demand ID, high court rules

    The Associated Press
    Updated: 10:47 a.m. ET June 21, 2004
    Can be found here at MSN

    Copy of it:
    Cops can demand ID, high court rules

    WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court ruled Monday that people do not have a constitutional right to refuse to tell police their names.
    The 5-4 decision frees the government to arrest and punish people who won’t cooperate by revealing their identity.

    The decision was a defeat for privacy rights advocates who argued that the government could use this power to force people who have done nothing wrong to submit to fingerprinting or divulge more personal information.

    Police, meanwhile, had argued that identification requests are a routine part of detective work, including efforts to get information about terrorists.

    The justices upheld a Nevada cattle rancher’s misdemeanor conviction. He was arrested after he told a deputy that he didn’t have to reveal his name or show an ID during an encounter on a rural road in 2000.

    Larry “Dudley” Hiibel was prosecuted, based on his silence and fined $250. The Nevada Supreme Court sided with police on a 4-3 vote last year.

    What's in a name?
    Justices agreed in a unique ruling that addresses just what’s in a name.

    The ruling was a follow up to a 1968 decision that said police may briefly detain someone on reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing, without the stronger standard of probable cause, to get more information. Justices said that during such brief detentions, known as Terry stops after the 1968 ruling, people must answer questions about their identities.

    Justices had been asked to rule that forcing someone to give police their name violated a person’s Fourth Amendment protection from unreasonable searches and the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.

    Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, writing for the majority, said that that it violated neither.

    “Obtaining a suspect’s name in the course of a Terry stop serves important government interests,” Kennedy wrote.
    Hummmmmmmm I will need to think on this one..

    ~Jason
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    戰挑的權霸統傳 The Challenge for Traditional Supremacy
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    _________________________
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  2. #2
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    Cops in texas will arrest you anyways...
    "i would show them 8 hours of animal porn and beheadings in a single sitting then make them write a paper about italy." -GDA
    "he said there were tons of mantids fornicating everywhere. While he was there, he was sending me photos of mantis porn regularly." - Gene Ching

  3. #3
    3rdrateIMAkilla Guest
    *******s

  4. #4
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    Speak of the devil...
    Wierd ****...
    Just posted that, then walked out front and had 2 cop cars waiting for us... "A neighbor called in about a suspicious vehicle being parked out front."
    "yes, thats my jeep. I live here."
    "What about the mustang?"
    "Its my friends. My jeep is here, meaning Im here. This needs not be an issue."
    "I need I.D.s from everyone."
    So we all gave the pigs some ID, then they start talking **** about ticketing my friend for parking the wrong direction. I told them that "You're duty is to protect and serve, not belittle and harass. He is here visiting me, we gave you I.D.'s. There is no problem here, you need to leave."
    They told him not to park like that anymore and left...
    Stupid pigs.
    "i would show them 8 hours of animal porn and beheadings in a single sitting then make them write a paper about italy." -GDA
    "he said there were tons of mantids fornicating everywhere. While he was there, he was sending me photos of mantis porn regularly." - Gene Ching

  5. #5
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    I odn't see what the problem is here, if a policeman asks you for your id, give it to him. I've found that when someone resists giving that info out, it's because they have a reason for it

    meat shake, sound like you and your freinds are bucking for the darwin awards this year. I'm surprised this little story (which I'm not buying by the way, I think your full of crap on the smack talk) didn't involve kungfu and you and your buddies scaring your freinds. By the way, you do realise it's illegal to park facing the wrong direction? I'm sure the cops in your area must be completely different from the cops everywhere else, who just walk away from a couple of smart mouthed idiots.
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  6. #6
    ****, I can't claim to be Rahsaan Kimbrow anymore
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  7. #7
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    I can't claim to be Rahsaan Kimbrow anymore
    I thought I was the only one!

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  8. #8
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    Red,

    If somebody refuses a search of their car does that mean they have a reason? MAybe they just don't want their stuff searched...

    I happen to agree that this particular ruling is not a violation of 4th amendment rights. Asking for proof of identity is hardly unreasonable.

    I also happen to agree that this ruling is proper overall. Giving out your name cannot be construed as something that gives you the opportunity to invoke the 5th amendment. Neither the due process clause nor the "pleading the 5th" portion applies. Due process just means you won't be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process and I don't think you can reasonably claim that your name is life, liberty or property. The right against self-incrimination applies only to criminal cases. I'm pretty sure you can't invoke the 5th in a civil suit.

    Since a police officer stopping somebody isn't a criminal case [there is no indictment, etc] this is a moot point. 5th amendment doesn't apply....
    "In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell

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    "A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli

  9. #9
    "constitutional right"

    We have been without a Constitution for quite some time already. This high court ruling only proves it.

    mickey

  10. #10
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    "(which I'm not buying by the way, I think your full of crap on the smack talk) didn't involve kungfu and you and your buddies scaring your freinds. By the way, you do realise it's illegal to park facing the wrong direction"

    lol.
    Just because you allow people to walk on you doesnt mean I do. I know my rights, I was on my property as well. I could give a **** if you believe me or not.
    And the kung fu comment is hardly relevant, you know I fight full contact, and if you dont WD can tell you how things go down here... I dont know what kind of fighting you guys do.

    I dont mind giving I.D.
    I do mind being harassed for no reason, and you're **** straight Im going to talk **** if its one of the very few times I dont have anything illegal on me.
    "i would show them 8 hours of animal porn and beheadings in a single sitting then make them write a paper about italy." -GDA
    "he said there were tons of mantids fornicating everywhere. While he was there, he was sending me photos of mantis porn regularly." - Gene Ching

  11. #11
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    Heh, I never have ID on me, partly on purpose. I have 4 last names and 2 middle names (legal changes). If they ask my name, I'll just give an old last name and middle name as first name. Personally I just do the "keep-walking-and-pretend-not-to-hear-because-i-have-headphones-on" method.
    Plus I'm a ****y, white, preppy guy, so I'm stereotyped "well behaved" guy (around here anyway).

  12. #12
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    I give ID. I have no warrants.
    I belive police in my town harass and try to scare people. This is not right. The police have too much power and they keep giving them more. I'm talking about walking into houses w/o warrants or probable cause. The ability to search a car w/o consent and using the absence of consent as a reason to search. Your in public and under the age of 30, they have the right to harass you, ask what your doing here, and ID you.

    This is bullsh!t....plain and simple...no matter how much you may think it isn't.
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  13. #13
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    If you have nothing to hide, then what is the difference?
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  14. #14
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    3 o'clock... roadblock

    And hey Mr. Cop, ain't got no
    (What you say down there)
    Ain't got no birth cerf-i-tificate on me now.

    ]
    Fairfax Jiu-Jitsu

    Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, Capoeira & Mixed Martial Arts

  15. #15
    Hmmmm. I've done nothing wrong, I don't match the description of anyone they're looking for, and they're not even looking for anyone in the first place..... but I can still go to jail and be fined just for keeping my mouth shut when they start questioning me?

    Now, I'm all for law & order. I used to be a cop myself. I can understand a person having to answer questions if they're suspected of being involved in or having info about a situation. But to say I can be stopped and questioned (and required to produce I.D.) for no reason at all (maybe the cops are just bored) and that I can be jailed if I don't answer sounds like we're veering a LITTLE too close to the precursor of a military state/ dictatorship.

    Not happy with the direction this is going.
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