OT: Cops can demand ID, high court rules

[Shen Zhou]

have arrived at the conclusion that any federal government that would be erected to replace the federal government we have now would be worse.

Agreed! America needs to truly practice democracy and not dictator ship called democracy. Would we be better off with another government ? Who knows but I do know you cant continue to kick a dog for long before he bites.

[Rayfield]

Originally posted by red5angel
what do you think would happen 10 days ago if you were to be pulled over or stopped by the police, they ask you for your ID and you refused? Do you really think they are just going to go "ok" and walk back to their car and drive away like "oh well, we couldn't nail him on anything cause he wouldn't give us his ID."
LOL! cracks me up. Stop and think about it before you start railing against the tyrannies and the oppressions please.

LMAO! ten years ago I was hanging out in the parking lot of a local restraunt with 2 of my friends. We were in my truck and I was driving. At the time I had no licencse because they had been revoked several months before. As we sat there in the truck, we get spot lighted from behind by a policeman. Cop walks up to the car and ask for my ID. I simlply told the policeman that, "I dont have them on me right now". Cop looks in the window at everyone inside then ask, " who has been drinking tonite"? No one says a **** thing. Next the officer ask, " whos got their licencse on with them"? Both of my friends state that they have their licencse with them. Cop says to me, "ok I dont want to see you driving again tonite", and with that he just walks away. with this new rule, I would have went to jail that nite. Pffft! screw that!

Ray

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

I have no problem producing identification upon request. If someone has something to hide, then they knew the rules of the game (ie: they are hiding something).. and the game isn't going in their favor.. Producing ID is no big deal, but.. whenever the Officer calls it in i do ask why.. if i am verifying that i am not someone else that they may be searching for, the ID should be sufficient.. if they call it in, they are fishing.. or, they need to explain that i have acted in some way that aroused suspicion.. Roadblock type license checks are annoying and offensive.. why don't LEOs stop vehicles leaving night-clubs where there is probable cause to suspect DUIs?

A bigger issue is one like has been described here.. unproductive searches where the citizen is left to clean up a mess unjustifiably made.. In as much as the citizens are held accountable for their actions, so then should the Law Enforcement Agencies.. If LEOs knew they had to return the auto or home to the same condition as they found it in whenever they conduct searches they might actually look for "probable cause".. If a citizen is arrested and tried and found not guilty, the Gov't should be responsible to reimburse the "not guilty" for all losses associated with prosecution including attorney's fees. This would reduce the number of unreasonable searches and motivate the Gov't to reduce its policy of harassment prosecution.. a close friend of mine was the victim of just such a policy and it bankrupted him, the State said "too bad"..

The most precious asset we have aside from our health is the freedom to enjoy it.. protect that freedom.. The Patriot Act and so many other recent legislative and judicial actions are inconsistent with a free society..

Be well..

[red5angel]

with this new rule, I would have went to jail that nite. Pffft! screw that!

I don't think so, this sort of encounter reflects the attitude of the individual in a singular moment.

I agree taichibob - if they turn everything over looking for something that isn't there, they should be held responsible for returning everything to the state it started in.
However, I certainly feel they are within their rights to not return everything to the state it was, if by some act of stupidity on your part, they were forced to pull you over or approach you in the first place.

[Vash]

I 100%, TCB.

[Shen Zhou]

In as much as the citizens are held accountable for their actions, so then should the Law Enforcement Agencies

THE END

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

However, I certainly feel they are within their rights to not return everything to the state it was, if by some act of stupidity on your part, they were forced to pull you over or approach you in the first place.

Hmmm.. suppose i turned right on red and didn't notice the "no turn on red" sign in the glare of the setting sun.. does the LEO have the right to search without returning to original condition?.. Hardly!! If i have done something stupid the LEOs job is to address that issue, not punish me by tossing my vehicle and leaving the mess for me to clean up.. that is wholly inappropriate.. This issue is about simple and common respect.. i respect and admire a competent LEO and pay taxes to receive the same respect..

Too often, LEOs use this tactic to "make a point", even though they didn't find something, you fit the profile, so.. they inconvenience the "suspect" as a warning.. ( i train LEOs, i've heard it all before).. how can a LEO expect respect with that sort of attitude.. a LEO is not a judge or jury, their job is NOT to hand out street justice based on their belief that the suspect was just lucky to not be in violation that particular time.. If you hang around enough LEOs you will find a pervasive subculture within the LEO community that is violently racist and frighteningly close to the mind-set of white supremists, they accept their role as a license to "teach people lessons" on how to be "good Americans"..

I know the rules, if i screw-up i know the consequences.. if a competent LEO calls me on it, i fully respect his Job, his office, and the professional manner in which he executes his authority.. adversely, if an incompetent LEO or a LEO with an attitude gets out of line, i will call him on it as well.. (yes, it has been unpleasant at times).. A LEO that abuses his authority, intimidates the public, and has an agenda other than what is mandated by law is no better than the criminals.. A good LEO is an asset to society, a bad LEO tears the fabric of society..

It's a game with rules, both sides need to play by the rules or the game becomes invalid..

Be well..

[red5angel]

a lot of accusations of profiling going on on this thread......

[MasterKiller]

If the law is capable of this, they are certainly capable of profiling.

[Becca]

The irony of profiling is that it is a good tool for law enforcement and does work if used correctly. But a tool is only as good as the person using it. Or, in the case of some idividuals, abusing it.

[Shen Zhou]

The irony of profiling is that it is a good tool for law enforcement

"Racial profiling results in the persecution of innocent people.
Every year, police stop thousands of innocent African-Americans, Latinos, Asians, Arabs, Muslims and Native Americans because they fit a particular ethnic profile. For instance, in the aftermath of 9/11, hundreds of Arab and Muslim men were rounded up, deniedaccess to counsel, held for weeks without charge or trial and subjected to verbal taunts and physical abuse. None were found to have any connection to the attacks."

Its easy to say getting kicked in the nuts does not hurt when you dont get kick or could never get kicked in the nuts. If profilling does not effect you then its easy to say its a good tool. Until you are driving alone down a road and get pulled over by the police, for for fitting a profile of being black, or being middle eastern, or being mexican, or being non-white and five more police cars show up and your heart feels like its about to jump out of your chest because you dont know what there intentions are then comment on profiling.

[red5angel]

Its easy to say getting kicked in the nuts does not hurt when you dont get kick or could never get kicked in the nuts. If profilling does not effect you then its easy to say its a good tool. Until you are driving alone down a road and get pulled over by the police, for for fitting a profile of being black, or being middle eastern, or being mexican, or being non-white and five more police cars show up and your heart feels like its about to jump out of your chest because you dont know what there intentions are then comment on profiling.

so now we've moved on from generalizing to making huge assumptions? shen Zhou, working hard at invalidating your opinions this weeak aren't you?

[Becca]

The part I like is where he picks a post the agrees with him, takes few words out of context, then uses them them to bash the person was agreeing with him!

Congrats Shen Zhou! You have made youself look like an idiot! Or did you not bother to read the whole post? It was three whole sentances...

[red5angel]

Congrats Shen Zhou! You have made youself look like an idiot!

he has to be trying too! No way someone could do this on accident.

[Vash]

red5;

You seem rather bent on proving there is a lack of corruption within our society's keepers. Or, at least, that it is not as widespread as it probably is.

What's the smallest town you've ever had to live in? I went to school in a town with two LEOs. Both were not exactly model citizens. One had a 10' by 12' back yard, kept a rather big horse in said yard. The other was known as something of a problem causer. The town itself had less than 700 people divided over the state line (it was a junction city, half the town in Arkansas, half in Louisiana).

Both had a tendency to pull over students leaving the high school. One car would leave the parking lot, blue lights start a flashin'. Soon as that car gets a ticket (only occasionally did one get a reason for getting pulled over, he stops, lets a few cars go, and BOOM, another blue-light special. I only got pulled over when i didn't have my two brothers to take home that day, which was kind of nice of him.

The gym I used to attend, it was something of a hangout spot for the local police. Since I got to the gym about the time the shift changed, I was privy to hearing much about the officers' day. One day, I heard this:

". . . anyway, he went and ****ed me the **** off, so he gets a ****ing citation. I tell him not to go ****in in the wind with me, cuz he'll get all ****ing wet. I told him, not to **** with my girl. She wants me, not that ******* ****sucker. So I cited him for a busted taillight I gave him."

That was one of the nicer stories I got to hear.

Not all those in law enforcement, government, or other type of state- or national-run agency are abusing their power. Many, in fact, are great people, people I'm proud to have in the government's service. Unfortunately, there are more who do than we would like to think.

Power corrupts, and all that.