to watchman [Subhydroshock demonstration]

[TjD]

this is pretty **** cool :)

i was wondering if you could go into a bit more depth on the subject - mabye provide some examples on how to practice this?

i've never tried it myself, but when punching i keep my fist/palm relaxed, it seems to work well on a human but ive hit a brick before

anyhow, do you have any tips on how one could practice this, or could you describe how the movement works?

thanks
travis

[Watchman]

Well, first of all let me start off with some advice not to get too carried away with the brick thing because practicing all the time on heavy, immovable objects will slow you down a bit and dull your power in chi sau.

My sifu first taught me the brick thing to be used as a demo piece which highlights the difference between relaxed "shock" power and that of "hard" muscular power (proving that you don't have to be a football lineman in order to do damage), and of course I thought it was cool and started smacking bricks every chance I got. Thing is, after a while I started to notice that my reaction time when I practiced chi sau with my kung fu brothers was getting a little sluggish. So, it's fun to do but keep it balanced with your regular training. About the only time I ever touch a brick anymore is when I'm doing a demo (which is infrequent).

Anyway, a good drill to practice subhydroshock power (and brick-breaking if that's your inclination) is to take your standard issue wallbag, put it on something about waist height (on a table, or you can put it on something lower if you kneel) and practice dropping your palm onto the bag. What you do is start with your arm extended in front of you at eye level, completely relax, and drop your arm (without any added acceleration on your part - just let gravity bring it down), letting the full surface area of you palm impact on the bag - trying to feel a sharp stinging impact on the bottom of your hand. This drill trains your palm strikes from a completely relaxed state and helps develop the requisite power.

After you get the right feel in your hands from the "dropping" drill, then you can add in a short elbow acceleration which whips your arm down into the wallbag. Make sure you aren't trying to hit the bag "hard", but are still maintaning complete relaxation to develop the "shock" effect. The feel in your arms is almost like you are "throwing" your arm down and just letting it go, rather than trying to shove it down with your muscles.

After this you can go buy yourself one of those flat grey paving bricks, put it on some supports, slap a phonebook on top, and start the "drop" drill all over again until you feel comfortably relaxed. Then start in with some elbow acceleration to feel the shock impact when you hit. To send the shockwave through the book and into the brick you just need to maintain some elbow pressure downward upon impact so your palm doesn't just bounce off the book.

When you get the feel of the proper elbow acceleration, feel the shock power in your palm, and maintain your elbow pressure so you don't bounce, take a deep breath and go for full acceleration. You should be able to do the job.

Explaining this is kind of hard. If I was in front of you I could take two minutes to explain it to you, show you the motion a couple of times, have you take a practice shot, give you a pointer, and have you laying the smack down right away. It really doesn't take that much training to accomplish.

Now as far as translating this to fighting:

Working the wallbag exercises will do amazing things for your speed and power, believe it or not. When you practice chi sau you want to use the same kind of relaxed elbow acceleration in all of your arm movements with the same maintanence of elbow pressure upon impact when you're striking. You'll notice that your "soft" strikes will have a funny split second delay before they vibrate in and start wreaking havok.



Not to tire of learning is wisdom;
Not to weary of teaching is benevolence.
-- Tzu-kung

[TjD]

its funny but i think i know what your talking about. ive done my fair share of chi sau, and it seems that the punches that hurt the most are the ones where i wasnt even trying. when you just whip your hand out there and arent expecting to hit and therefore dont tense up to release the energy (if you know what im talking about)

with this i mean, when we punch we "tense" up so to say, to give our punches that extra snap at the end

but when my arm just gets sent flying out without the tension and ends up whacking my chi sau partner, usually it hurts them more

is this more the energy your talking about?

thanks very much!
travis

[Watchman]

Yup, that's exactly the energy I'm talking about. Tensing up on impact will go a ways to damage your opponent, but maintaining complete relaxation upon impact with proper elbow pressure will send the force into his body cavity instead of just tearing up the surface area. This way it doesn't matter how physically conditioned he is because the force leaps right through him.

I have new students feel the force all the time by having them hold a phone book flat against their chest and letting me whip a medium strength punch into it from short range (about four to six inches away). They will feel the instant impact, then a split second delay, and a vibrating "buzz" will shoot and sink through them. I demoed on a student last week who said he felt the ********y force drop into his liver area and buzzed for a good half hour. He also got a little nautious and had to sit down for a while. :D



Not to tire of learning is wisdom;
Not to weary of teaching is benevolence.
-- Tzu-kung

[kungfu cowboy]

I have had the pleasure of being on the recieving end of this kind of power. Very convincing! I'm just glad it wasn't full force. Its a neat way to express energy.

(I seriously need a life.)™

[mikey]

sorry,
I came here expecting to see a side of
beef getting blown to hell with some new
kind of subsonic Federal hollowpoints.

[Stranger]

Where's the vid clip?

"Luminous beings are we."

[Watchman]

Vid clip?

[Stranger]

I'm sorry, I thought you were refering to some mpeg. that was posted elsewhere on the forum. I just wanted to see some cool stuff. :D

"Luminous beings are we."

[Watchman]

He was referring to a post I made on another thread. I'll copy it over here:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Subhydroshock demonstration (from "Straight Line Punch" thread):

Here's me putting the smackdown on some innocent, standard lumber yard issue gray paving bricks. If you'll notice, there are no spacers and I've got a phone book on top of the first brick. I also don't make any big "body mass" moves (jumping, screaming, backflips, etc.) to get the job done -- just a nice relaxed whipping motion from the elbow and a focused hand position.

The purpose of the demo is to show that you can use soft force from just a whipping motion that can be sent through one surface (the phonebook) into another (the bricks) in order to do damage. If you see it live, there is a very tiny delay from the moment of impact on the phonebook and when the bricks snap. Enjoy.

[Martial Joe]

Getting smacked by him,would it cause my head to split in two?

[Martial Joe]

Of course but not Relaks,his is toooooo thik!

[tnwingtsun]

Is that the same kind of energy you used on the spider?

Sorry man,couldn't help it. :D

[kungfu cowboy]

LOL! :D

(I seriously need a life.)™

[Stranger]

Cool, thanks for indulging me.

"Luminous beings are we."