Do you, Biu Jee?

[burnsypoo]

I've noticed in a few videos I've seen that some family's perform their BJ with more conservative motions than I understand, though still sharply/crisply. The spine kept picture perfect as in SNT, sometimes the elbows are almost horizontal.

I believe in BJ developing a very supple spine/body amongst other things. We should be able to drop bombs from anywhere, right? Off the line to on, position of risk to one of strength, contraction relaxation. Slipping a punch seems a perfectly natural and comfortable extension of the aliveness in the form.

So I'm curious, how's the arc on your elbows in bj? Do you move your head off the line to accomodate them? Why, why not? What role does the spine play in your bj?

Thnx guys,

[AmanuJRY]

"I believe in BJ developing a very supple spine/body amongst other things. "

I believe this too, but begining as early as Chum Kiu.

"So I'm curious, how's the arc on your elbows in bj?"

Not sure what you mean.

Maybe describe what part of BJ are you referring to.

"Do you move your head off the line to accomodate them?"

With regards to the last question, I'm not sure. But head movement becomes alot more "meaningful" in BJ.

"What role does the spine play in your bj?"

Alot. But the spine plays a large role in WC anyway. From Chum Kiu on, we learn to develop our whole body as a spring, so our trunk (spine, chest, abdomen, etc.) or center has to be flexible as well as our hand/arms and legs.
As for the role it plays in BJ, I'd say it's the same as in CK or even SNT.

[burnsypoo]

hey Amanu,

for my questions I was thinking of the beginning elbows in the form, triples-singles, whatever. I think the major thing was that in those examples the people just looked to stiff for BJ, like they were affraid to let "it" go.

I agree that all the forms are interdependant. But as an aside, when you start to talk about what you can find where, it really depends on the experience of the player and the context in which you're discussing it. There is something to be said for the progression of learning and realization on a students path, something a good curriculum will take into account. "Progression" is the key, and IMO it takes a 1st run through the system before you have the experience to really explore/exploit it on the next way through.

[anerlich]

I generally perform the form with pretty much vertical posture, but the shoulders are fairly loose. The elbows come up as high as possible without getting ridiculous about it. Some movement of the spine is always required for smooth movement and maximum muscle and joint recruitment. I feel the form should emphasise defensive structure while attacking, and the ability to change direction or technique rapidly without overcommitment, but I'm a lot freer when smacking the pads or whatever with elbows, or shadow kickboxing.

There's no rule that sayas you always have to do the forms the same way all the time anyway, They are vehicle for exploration, not dogma. Do them with varying speed, emphasising various attributes, etc. etc. IMO that's what they are for.

keeping a dead straight, vertical posture throughout one's WC practice (including the SLT form, as well as CK and BJ) is IMO one of the great fallacies. Anatomically the spine is designed to flex and move; the straight spine is contraindicated for movements like deadlifting or squatting, where an arched back is essential, and for that matter most movements requiring full body recruitment or coordination. A dead straight spine is grossly inefficient for power generation.

Even breathing drills require flexing and arching of the spine for maximum efficiency and effectiveness.

[yylee]

Originally posted by anerlich
keeping a dead straight, vertical posture throughout one's WC practice (including the SLT form, as well as CK and BJ) is IMO one of the great fallacies.

IMHO the fallacies is about not knowing what "straight" means. The term "straight" is more like a mental feeling when the spine is effortlessly aligned. Beginners often fall into the habbit of rigidly locking the spine so it looks straight.

I think this is a good article that relates to the spine, especially on Tei Gong and how to "aim" that feeling:

http://www.hchwingchun.com.au/article14.htm

[anerlich]

It's not a bad article as far as it goes. I wasn't aware the abs' function was to hold the spine erect Their function, I always thought, was to bring the front of the rib cage and pelvis closer together, and the obliques have a similar, flexing or twisting function. Why do we have muscles called "erector spinae" again?

These are good guidelines for learning to stand in a relaxed posture. or to recognise a point of equiblibrium when moving. In a dynamic situation, where you may want the spine to act like an I-beam, a spring, a whip, etc. from moment to moment, I'm not sure the philosophy totally stands up (no pun intended).

[kungfu cowboy]

I had a bus driver named BJ. He was a Baptist priest full time, bus driver part-time and yelled at us but let us play guns-N-roses in the cassesstte deck he let us install on the bus.

[AmanuJRY]

You are a kung-fu cowboy!

Burnsy,

Ah, the Kap, Kwai, pai set.

When I perform a Kap Jarn, I don't move my head to accomadate my elbow (in application it may depend on circumstance), I try to remain relaxed but *crisp* not rigid. As for my spine, it moves in a "sinking" motion similar to that of when I do a Jum Sau.

Kwai Jarn and Pai Jarn are different as they don't have the same downward strike. With them my spine has less/no movement.

For the most part I'm with Andrew on this;

"Anatomically the spine is designed to flex and move; the straight spine is contraindicated for movements like deadlifting or squatting, where an arched back is essential, and for that matter most movements requiring full body recruitment or coordination. A dead straight spine is grossly inefficient for power generation."

And could it be possible the demonstrations you witnessed were by someone who had not progressed through the whole system and returned through it as you suggest?