Why do people think Ba Gua practice = long life

[Ray Pina]

When Dong Hai Chuan died at 69 and Cheng Ting Hua died at 52!!!!!

I know alcoholic coke heads who are going strong in their late 50s early 60s .... maybe surfing is the key to longevity.



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edit:

This is a devil's advocate thread. Just would like to see some discussion on this.

[Paul_E]

It's fine to play Devil's advocate but maybe you should have chosen better examples. I'm pretty sure Cheng ting hua was shot to death. (Ba gua does not make you invincible.)

I also thought Dong died when he was 80 something?

Paul

[Ray Pina]

The information I found (yesterday) had Mr. Dong dying at 69. I never heard of Mr. Cheng before yesterday either. I was just fooling around on the net killing time. I think I got that info from Black Taoist's site.

I'm never really spent time looking into Ba Gua's history or anything like that. I'll read what's available, read most of the main stream books but that's about it.

Curious. So how did he get shot? Being the agressor or wrong place wrong time sort of thing? Do you have the story?

As for health. I have experienced the benefits first hand .... my 63 year old teacher regularly beats the hell out of me and cranks my head, neck and arm on the ground. Playing full force, there's nothing I can really do to him yet.

[MasterKiller]

I think the "myth" that kung fu practice, in general, leads to a longer life span simply stems from the benefits of a daily, rigorous exercise routine. People who practiced a lot were in better shape than people who did nothing, so they lived longer.

[SPJ]

Here is the theory from TCM.

When you keep your upper body straight and walk in Ba Gua circles with both hands up, close to your center line and pointing to the center of the walk.

Both your Ren and Du meridians are opened. so that your Qi and blood flow unobstructed. You increase your Guard Qi and live longer than your life expectancy (determined by your genetics, diets and so on). So you live longer than you would otherwise. Not necessarily longer than others, so to speak.

[TenTigers]

Longevity amoungst martial artists is a relative thing. If you outlive your enemies, theoretically, you've achieved longevity. Even if your enemies die at thirty, and you live to forty! There are also those crazy san-da guys, who after they've completely lost their minds, everyone stays away from them, so they also get to live longer.!!!

[maoshan]

Peace

Cheng Ting Hua Was shoot to death in 1900 by a group (Germans, if I remember right) during the boxer rebellion while trying to make good his escape from them.

Dong Hai Chuan did die at the age of 69 from some illness.

SPJ

(You increase your Guard Qi and live longer than your life expectancy (determined by your genetics, diets and so on). So you live longer than you would otherwise. Not necessarily longer than others, so to speak.)

This is my understanding of the longevity topic as well. those who lived to be incredible ages, would have lived a long normal life to begin with. Internal development simply augmented an ordinary long life.

Peace

Maoshan

[wujidude]

Dong Hai Chuan died in 1882. There may be some disagreement about his birth year. After quite a lot of research (including over 400 interviews), Kang Ge Wu put Dong's birth year as 1813 (which would make Dong 69 when he died). Tradition and some other evidence places Dong's birth in the year 1797 (making him 85 when he died).

Dong came to Beijing as early as 1855, and was in Prince Su's employment as a martial arts trainer and tax collector as early as 1860 (he supposedly spent 10 years wandering around Inner Mongolia with Yin Fu, training and collecting taxes for the Prince). Besides Yin Fu, Dong taught very few people before his retirement from Palace service around 1875 (about the time that Cheng Ting Hua began to study with him).

When you consider the whole range of Dong's students, there is not any exceptional longevity above what would be expected. There really isn't with taijiquan or xingyiquan practitioners, either. People point to Wu style taijiquan (Wu Tunan, Ma Yuehliang) or Hebei xingyiquan (Wang Ji Wu living to 100), but the incidence of extreme longevity is not necessarily higher among those groups of MA practitioners, once things like educational or economic status are figured in.

My own opinion is that where IMA practice (well done) makes a difference is in the level of health and vitality as we age, not in the absolute lifespan. The quality of life, in other words, can be improved in old age by good IMA practice.

It would be equivalent to saying that pre-natal qi (genetic endowment) cannot be increased by IMA practice, but can be better protected/conserved (in part through cultivation of postnatal qi, i.e., factors affecting health which can be trained in IMA practice).

[count]

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual number of years increased by a few but spot on about the quality of those senior years. I really believe you get old when your spine begins it's natural collapse and bagua should prevent or at least delay that.

[Ray Pina]

Thanks all. Thanks for some history and some discussion on Ba Gua.

I have only tasted a small part, though I have fully incorporated peach palm. That was something I saw early and considered EXTREMELY valuable. I couldn't imagine fighting without it.

I'd like to learn some more Ba Gua. The past three years have mostly been spent on Hsing-I, learning where the power comes from and the past 9 months have been a morphing of some e-chuan tactics and ways of doing things. It's cool how it all comes together.

I hopefully will be able to meet some of you at the Ba Gua tournament.

Peace
Ray

[omarthefish]

My 88 year old Grandma's secret to longevity? Chores!

Her mom lived to be . .. I dunno, late 90's. It was her secret that she passed on to here daughter. Do the chores by hand. Wash the dishes by hand. Scrub the floors and put some elbow grease into it! I have memories of my great grandma making sponge cake. At 90+ years old she would beat the egg whites with a WHISK!!! not an electic hand mixer.

Anyways it's been said. It probably won't make us live longer but I am pretty **** sure I won't be drinking specially formulated breakfat beverages through seniors through a straw when I'm old. I plan of being to busy outside chopping wood for my neighbors.

[BAI HE]

EF, for your test group you singled out two who died young.
Where you making a statement or asking a question?

[Ray Pina]

a little bit of both, I guess. Mostly having fun and thinking out loud.

Actually, I truly apreciate the internal martial path. I learn more every week.

[Buddy]

I like pianist Eubie Blake's comment on his 100th birthday.
"If I knew I was going live this long, I would have taken better care of myself."

[Tak]

Originally posted by Paul_E
(Ba gua does not make you invincible.)

That's it, I'm quitting.