What the Old Master know?

[Ernie]

Originally posted by Matrix
Ernie,
Information is not knowledge. We are flooded with information on a daily basis, and yet our real knowledge has not progressed as much as we might like to believe. Much like modern fast food, a lot information often lacks any real nutritional content for the mind. The best way to deal with the common cold may still be grandma's chicken soup.

Bill

nah i take cold eze with zync and i'm vegiterien wouldn't touch chicken with a 10 foot pole

practical knowledge and hand me down stories of what some one did yet know one can prove or recreate is different as well

i don't believe in kung fu movies , nor in fables , nor do i chase shadows and ghost

deal with today today let yesterday lie dead were it belongs
every athletic event has improved with time
yet some how martial arts is better in the days of old hmmm
especially chinese martial arts filled with so many layers of crap , but i guess people love to live in the past

[chisauking]

Ah, good old western – or is it American? – mentality. I know everything and more than you. I’m the BEST. All the knowledge that I’ve acquired was from myself. Blah, blah, blah. I’m so arrogant and obnoxious to think that only I have discovered what no other wing chun master have discovered in their lifetime of wing chun journey.

If you only live for today and history is irrelevant to you, how do you learn from the geniuses before, and, more importantly, from your mistakes? Also, since wing chun is a fighting style that dates back more than 400-years, why are you learning something from the PAST? More stupidly, why are you learning Chinese crap?

Michael Yan Choi 10th generation know nothing fighter, I know it all just do it practitioner

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Ernie
so many layers of crap , but i guess people love to live in the past

Ernie,
No one is, at least I'm not, saying that you should live in the past. That's a waste of time. Yesterday is a cancelled cheque, tomorrow is an IOU. You can only live in the present. However, like all things we need to have some sort of balance. What we have today is built upon the ideas and accomplishments of the past, and we need to make some plans for the future or our results may not be satisfactory.

We see a lot of dialogue about the past, and I have little or no interest in that. A lot of it sounds like myths and legends that are used to justify a certain political agenda. I personally thank all of the masters of the past for their contribution to the art, because without it we would not have the Wing Chun we have today. Please don't confuse respect with hero worship, they are very different animals. They were just ordinary men with a dedication and passion for the art, and I respect their contribution.

Kung fu movies are for entertainment purposes only, just like fables and ghost stories. They are the product of an active human imagination. I'd say "eat the chicken, and spit out the bones", but you're a vegetarian.

Bill

[Ernie]

so many layers of crap , but i guess people love to live in the past


he he he i knew i would get a rise out of someone if i said that , sometimes i just get that dr evil thing going on

chi sau king get over your self good lord , lighten up
if some thing works i use it ,i don't care were it comes from i care on how well ''i'' can use it in my training . i don't need to know who invented the gun , to kill some one with it

i don't believe in masters so the premiss of this whole thread is flawed to me , i just see regular people that developed skill with proper training methods , no snakes cranes , flying pig and barking chicken styles developed by watching a tick hump a dog
[ that's what i mean by crap , not what you might have thought ]
so climb back on your high chair and be the 10th generation little emperor monkey king of master worship all you want what ever makes you happy

i would much rather take a taxi the walk ie evolve


matrix
no worries man i just felt like fluffing insecure feathers out of complete boredom

[blooming lotus]

all styles began with some mimetic origin......be it plant or animal or whatever.........studied and developed over varied time-frames

but now thx to great red, blue and white.........you can have yours mcdojo style.

you do practice gongfu right???

[Tom Kagan]

Originally posted by PaulH
What do you think that a skillful WC master know that you don't?
Let the discussion begin!

Regards,
PH

A skillful master knows not to bother posting a reply to this thread.


(Update 9 July: To the people who contacted me privately and to anyone else wondering, yes, I did understand the irony of me posting this beforehand. Sheesh! -- TK)

[blooming lotus]

I guess that rules out the lot of us then

[Ernie]

All styles began with some mimetic origin...be it plant or animal or whatever.........

---- Which is already ridicules, man is man, a plant is a plant and a bug is a bug, I have never known of it being other wise ‘’ may be in some fable somewhere ha ha ‘’
Man is a higher conscience and the human body is the tool, not much to be learned from a goat eh? Different body mechanics ----


But now thx to great red, blue and white.........you can have yours mcdojo style.

------ Every style is mc dojo until you make it your own and can apply it in a live environment, all forms and dry land swimming until then ---


You do practice gongfu right???

----- I have ‘’ trained’’ in boxing, savate, Thai, FMA, wing chun when I ‘’practice’’ I ‘’practice’’ combative application. I don’t blindly follow doctrines and forms, stories and fables, masters and grand masters. Everything must prove itself to me.
I’m the kid that sticks his hand in the fire even though some one told me not because it will burn me go figure =)

I sure as hell don’t run around in a some hooky kung fu uniform and slippers, not only would it be hilarious I would get shot or beat down, I might have to shot myself

[blooming lotus]

feather ruffling fishing for a bite ha??

lol..........

goodnight

[Matrix]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
all styles began with some mimetic origin......be it plant or animal or whatever.........

All Styles??? And just a word of advice,.......... don't quote Walker Texas Ranger.

Bill

[Ernie]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
feather ruffling fishing for a bite ha??

lol..........

goodnight

ha ha you figured me out , good night lotus
may you have dreams of snakes , cranes , burning temples , and yoda the great master , becomeing a closed door student of the force ha ha ha ha ha .....
peace

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Ernie
i don't believe in masters so the premiss of this whole thread is flawed to me , i just see regular people that developed skill with proper training methods , .......

I think we're getting hung up on the term "master". Do you agree that there have been individuals in the past who have achieved an extraordinary level of skill in the martial arts, who have been responsible for advancing the art and passing it on to the generations that followed? There are probably individuals of that calibre today. To me, that is someone who has achieved a level of mastery. Someone deserving of respect, but not someone to kowtow to.........not some demigod with superpowers. An artist of consummate skill who is highly proficient, not unlike the "old masters" in the world of fine art.

Back to the feather ruffling......

Bill

[Ernie]

I think we're getting hung up on the term "master".

--- Definitely I hear that word and I cringe, I picture some starry eyed idiot running after some one ‘’ master master please let me lick the bottom of your shoe ‘‘ or like that snake dude James earl Jones played in Conan when he told Conan power is not in the steel but in the flesh and he motion to one of his disciples to jump and they did with a smile to there death, it’s Jim Jones all over again. Or in reality master needs some lucky money shhhiitt master wants a kick in the balls -----

Do you agree that there have been individuals in the past who have achieved an extraordinary level of skill in the martial arts,

---- I agree that it is possible but with out proof the level of their actual skill is subjective --------
Who have been responsible for advancing the art and passing it on to the generations that followed?

----- Information has progressed through time so there had to be people that moved it along, again level of skill is subjective who were they fighting, how good was there opponents skill all subjective, --------

There are probably individuals of that caliber today.

----- I believe much better, the potential to surpass the previous generation is improved with each new generation, every other human endeavor has improved, though scientific break through, knowledge of the human body and mind, and shared information yet some how martial arts is not effected, were is the logic in that


To me, that is someone who has achieved a level of mastery

---- Mastery in respect to what and how is it proven / measured?

---- Sure there have special individuals through out time, people with heightened attributes or gifted minds, but though these people might be entertaining and inspirational they stand out because of there difference thus we cannot chase there image unless we are as gifted, so I prefer to keep things grounded in reality, training methods, testing and honesty of strengths and weaknesses just plain old human equation

No ruffled feathers here, I just don’t believe in pedestals

[AmanuJRY]

mas·ter [ mástər ]; noun


1. boss: a man in a position of authority, for example, over a business, servants, or an animal


2. somebody highly skilled: somebody who has great skill in a particular area


3. somebody in control: somebody or something controlling or influencing events or other things ( sometimes considered offensive )


4. abstract control: an abstract idea or force that is thought of as having control or influence ( sometimes considered offensive )


5. industry skilled worker: somebody who is highly skilled in a trade or craft and is qualified to teach apprentices ( usually used in combination )


6. original copy: an original copy of something such as a recording tape or a stencil, from which other copies can be made


7. game player at high level: somebody who has reached a level of excellence in some games, especially chess or bridge, reckoned by number of games or points won in major tournaments.


8. leader: somebody whose philosophy or religious belief has attracted followers ( sometimes considered offensive )


9. nautical ship’s officer: the captain of a merchant ship.


10. law specialist assisting judge: a specialist, sometimes a retired judge, who assists a court by making a report to the judge presiding over a case, often a highly complex case


11. victor: somebody who defeats another ( literary )


12. comput mechanical engineering controlling machine: a device or computer that controls the operation of one or more other connected devices or computers ( sometimes considered offensive )



adjective

1. main: devised to operate on the broadest level


2. controlling: controlling the operation of everything or of all others


3. principal: biggest or primary among several

transitive verb

1. learn something: to become highly skilled in something, or acquire a complete understanding of it


2. control something: to learn to control feelings or behavior ( sometimes considered offensive )


3. control somebody: to break the will of a person or animal ( sometimes considered offensive )


4. recording make master recording: to produce a master recording

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i don't believe in masters so the premiss of this whole thread is flawed to me , i just see regular people that developed skill with proper training methods

Doesn't developed skill fall under definition 2???


As we can see there are many definitions of the term master in the english language, and I think on this forum we are all using different ones.

Although, unlike Ernie, I believe in masters (see def. #2, 5 or even 7), I don't believe they deserve any hero worship or special treatment. There is always some knowledge to be gained from anyone with more than you, wheather they are "technically" a master or not.

[PaulH]

Maybe it is true that we don't know what we have got until we lose it, but it is also true that we don't know what we have been missing until it arrives.

--Unknown

I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be perceived in this mode.

--J.R.R. Tolkien, "The Letters of J. R. R Tolkien"

Imagination is the eye of the soul.

--Joseph Joubert

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Hi All,

Thank you for your interesting replies so far! The thread is deliberately vague to provoke different sort of responses from a a wide spectrum of denizens here. I like to encourage more of the silent ones hiding somewhere in their cozy forum den to come out and to share little sniplets of their mind. =)

Science has explained nothing; the more we know the more fantastic the world becomes and the profounder the surrounding darkness.

--Aldous Huxley

Regards,
PH