Choy Lay Fut Tactics

[Rhat]

Originally posted by CLFNole
whats the point.

Here is the point.

The machine gun attacks is wing chun, not CLF.


WC punch = AK47
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CLF pow sow chop =.38
/ / ^ / / ^ / / ^
+++*+++*+++*
------>------>------>

[CLFNole]

Yeah whatever you say, love the illustrations.

Move on with this one its hopeless.

[yutyeesam]

Originally posted by Rhat
Here is the point.

The machine gun attacks is wing chun, not CLF.


WC punch = AK47
===@===@===@
===@===@===@
===@===@===@

CLF pow sow chop =.38
/ / ^ / / ^ / / ^
+++*+++*+++*
------>------>------>

SA-WEET!!! Just make sure it's a one to one showdown in an elevator.

If not, then CLF definitely provides you with all the carpet bombing you could ever need!

On a less retarded note, and back to the technicalities, I've never seen CLF chain punch type stuff before. The closest I've seen is a continuous circular blade hand pushing out (chaan jeong, I think), one over the other.
Is there a form that has the continuous Tsop Choys? if so, which one(s) and of what lineage? Thanks, 123.

[CLFNole]

Buk Sing CLF has the lien wan chop choy or 'continuous panther fist'. I don't believe it is similar to the wing chun chain punch where the body is squared to the target. You would need to ask a buk sing player the specifics, however any CLF practioner should now how to apply a continued variety of chop choys.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

Wing Chun=AK47

Choy Lay Fut=super rapid fire grenade launcher

......haha!

[hungsingclf]

Lau Bun's Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut uses something similar, we call it ping ahn choy (level eye punch) which actually is a leopard fist thrown from say ping ma right leopard, dingi ma left leopard, say ping ma right leopard, but in continuous manner.

[CLFNole]

hungsingclf:

All CLF has this pattern. My style (from Lee Koon Hung) does the same combo chueng ahn choy (what you call ping ahn choy) to either yum chop or yeung chop back to chueng ahn choy.

Another way to do continuous chops is with the same hand going high/low or low/high with yum & yueng chops as well as to the sides with wang deng or chueng ahn. This could also be looked at similar to the tau lau chop choy or stealing panther fist.

Peace

[hungsingclf]

clfnole, glad to hear from you. since i am in georgia, if you are ever up this way, contact me. go into chinatown for some lunch and talk shop on clf. feel free to email me at hungsingclf@yahoo.com.

[CLFNole]

Thanks for the invite. I think your in Atlanta right? It is a bit of a hike for me becuase I am in South Florida but if I ever get up there I'll try to give you a shout.

I like discussing CLF to see perspectives from other lineages. In a constructive manner. Many times we try that on this site and it turns into my way is better than your way and nothing is accomplished.

I feel that a lot can be gained from each other.

Peace.

[hungsingclf]

sounds good. hey if your interested go to sf with us in august. can meet my sifu and sigung.sifu actualy has a couple of old pics of your sifu in his studio. be a fun weekend, lots of good food at the family association,maybe you could even demo with us.

[CLFNole]

August is a tough month for me (real busy with work) but thanks for the invite. I have a box of old pictures of my sifu when he was a kid, teenager and on up. Pictures of him with many old masters including Lun Chee. I have lots of old videos from Hong Kong, however they are in PAL format so you need a PAL VCR and TV to view them. Some of this weapons were also passed on to me so I consider myself quite lucky.

I would very much like to meet your sifu some day.

Enjoy your trip.

Peace.

[hungsingclf]

no sweat, offer is always there. keep in touch and good luck with your training.

[Mika]

Leaving yourself open or being open is a matter of many factors. Inherently, all long range hand techniques leave you more open than their shorter cousins if the body is to be turned, that is, you go from left side front to right side front.

Now, this all happens in a matter of fractions of a second, so to argue whether or not this really and without a doubt and in all circumstances means anything is of little use unless we know all other variables. It depends. On you. On the technique you use. On your experience. On the opponent. Etc.
But the fact remains that every technique is Yin & Yang, win some, lose some.
Take the famous Choy Lee Fut backfist for example: if you fully succeed with it, man, it's a KO right then and there! However, should you fail with it...that's bad news for you as you have - for just 0.03 seconds - turned your back on the guy. Never a good idea. Unless you know how to do it right.

So, if Tapani's example wasn't broken down, I'll take a shot at it.

1) Left side forward - left kwa choy to the guard (through the guard, I should say). Right hand is at guard.
2) You move forward to your right side to deliver the pek choy. Right hand is moving and in front. Left hand is on the left side of the body on its way to guard the head (if it's done with a lot of power, it WILL make a (semi)circle and is thus not pulled back immediately or in a straight line).
3) Right side forward - right pek choy to the collar bone. Left hand is at guard.

2) is where you are at your most vulnerable. As you move your body forward, there is a moment where your chest is facing your opponent instead of either one of your sides. There is physically no other way to do this in a straight line. THIS is where you are, as they say, open.

Tapani, btw, has not learned Choy Lee Fut from any books (Joe mentioned books). He speaks from many years of experience. This aspect of long range Choy Lee Fut techniques is widely recognized here. It is very beneficial to know where your possible weaknesses are, be it you yourself or any techniques you might want to use.

All and all, there is no perfect technique or style, it all depends on how you use what you have. Everything always has a down side. With long range techniques it's sometimes leaving yourself open, even if it's only for a blink of an eye. An experienced fighter just might be able to take advantage of it.
(And with short range techniques it could be not being able to generate enough power or not being able accurately and with enough reach to hit a rapidly retrieving opponent, etc. etc.).

Yin & Yang, okay?

Cheers,

Mika

[Sow Choy]

Hi Mika,

I understand what you are saying, and the technique you mentioned definitely can happen like that.

But what it seems like to me, I may be wrong cause we are reading text not comparing actual physical movement... But it seems people describe and believe we fight exactly like our forms.

Now even CLF will differ from school to school, so I can only speak from my experience, I am from the Lee Koon Hung lineage. But this topic of being open and ying yang like you mentioned is the same even for a boxer... A boxer jabs and keeps his rear hand up and there is open for a hook, or even a counter jab.

What I mean is when Choy Lay Fut is used in fighting the stances and movements are done more natural and not as exageratted as the form...
Also the swings are done fully with the same intensity or else yes we would be very open. If I miss a swing punch and keep the intensitythrough the circle and miss... I would be way off balance and open... But if I control it and empty the arm after the miss it is easy as retracting a jab.

So maybe we train different, I have seen some who have trained years just swing wild, so I am not sure if other schools teach different...

Maybe a good topic would be to talk of how most styles keep the hands sensitive or empty after impact in order to evade being grabbed or countered...?

And I hope I didnt offend anyone, especially Timpani. The book analogy is from my experience and some comments of others...

Peace,

Joe

[Sow Choy]

Also,

If swung with full intensity... and a miss occurs... The shoulder can be dislocated very easily. Never happened to me yet, but one of my kung fu brothers was sparring and was very excited and it happened with a bad "been choy" horizontal swinging backfist.

So recovery is also important and goes hand to hand with intensity.

But no one is perfect, and no style is perfect. So I am not in disagreement, just interested in what you all have to say about preventing being open, as well as your favorite openings of the gap and counters... whats your favorite combos?

I really enjoy hearing other CLF peoples tips...

Joe