Bak Siu Lam "Tun Da"

[Sow Choy]

Just wanted to ask what the meaning of Tun Da in English is and if there is any info someone can give on this form...

I learned it from a student of GM Chan Kwok Wai (Brasil), nice form...

[David Jamieson]

tun ta = short strike

#6 of the core ten sets of bak sil lum.

This is generally the first of the 10 core sets a student learns in the style.

[SaekSan]

"Ta" can also be translated as "fight".

So it can be translated as "Short Fight" as well.

Duan Da (or Tun Ta) can be seen as a "short fight" when compared to the other ten core sets of BSL.

What kind of info are you looking for?

[Sow Choy]

Thanks for the replies...

I speak cantonese quite well...

but having no formal training in bak siu lam, so nout sure of the meaning of the name or if it has a significant relaation to any of the movements of if there is any other meaning/s...

Also if there is anything you all think should be known about this form...

Thanks for your replies

Joe

[David Jamieson]

well, there is lyrics or poetry that goes with the set.

here's a thread that talks about it:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...&highlight=tun

and, each school has a slightly different flavour in performance.

It's a good set. I learned some bak sil lum sets at my formar school. Then I learned a few more in the last three years, I like the style, it's pretty demanding and has a lot of excellent kicks.

You could probably win a forms demo with a bak sil lum set. They are very appealing to watch.

cheers

[SaekSan]

There's a couple of books that have the set featured.

"Secrets of Northern ShaoLin Kung-Fu" by Lai Hung and Brian Klingborg (Tuttle Publishing) will give you a little history on the style, some basic exercises, a play-by-play of the set and some of its applications.

The other book is called "Kung Fu Shaolin do Norte" by Chan Kwok-wai and Ariovaldo F. A. Veiga (Editora Biopress). Now this book would probably match pretty close to what you learned since it was written by GM Chan and one of his close students. Problem is that it's in Portuguese, but if you get your hand on it at least the pictures will help you clarify any questions you might have on the postures.

As Kung Lek mentioned, each school has a different flavor for this set, if you are able to get both books you will see the differences between GM Lai's version and GM Chan's version.

Now as for the comment "if there is anything you all think should be known about this form...", well... think about this set as being a small part of a bigger picture. This set will give you a taste of BSL but the techniques are somewhat basic in comparison to the rest of the sets in the style.

[David Jamieson]

I would say in regards to the "is there anything i should know" remark that you can also think of teh system of BSL as progressive. Each set builds towards the next and from the last.

So, as Tun Ta is the 6th set in the core ten, you are introduced to quite a few of the techs from the overall style. For instance, in #6 you do a 3/4 leg sweep, in the set that follows,#7, a full leg sweep. There are also revisitations and alternate spins on techs from the previous set.

I understand that the tenth set in the core sets is a collection of techniques that were put into the tenth set because they didn't fit anywhere else in the earlier progression.

It does contain techniques however that are undeniably "cool"
and unmistakeably Chinese martial arts.

[Sow Choy]

Thanks for your replies...

and the link helped a bit too

I really enjoy the little of BSL I know.

The training I have in GM Shek Kin's Northern Kung Fu is all I have to compare with, and my 1 BSL connection. He is very good though, while at Sao Paulo I observed some of GM Chan Kwok Wai's top students... they were very impressive, and my KF brother's BSL is just like theirs...

Again thanks...

Joe

[SifuAbel]

If you want some Bak Siu Lum info. Go to my teacher in N.Miami. He's a CKW line holder.

[Sow Choy]

Sifu Abel,

I know your sifu quite well, great guy... We don't see each other much since now I mainly am in WPB area (Boynton)...

Do you know Sifu Paul Fraga? He trained for 15 yrs under GM Chan in Brazil, but the language barrier is tough as you probably know...

Take Care...

Joe

[GeneChing]

This form is usually the first taught to the student and the most parallel of the BSL forms to what is now taught at Songshan Shaolin. When people are looking for overlap between these two Shaolin systems, BSL 6 is the one that presents the most.

[SifuAbel]

Yeah, the portugese is difficult. Too many au's and ain's.

Cool, I'll send regards from you to Sifu.

[David Jamieson]

Gene-

In regards to tun ta being close to what is taught at shaolin now...

Are you saying that because it's empirically true or because of the time you showed them(the monks) the set and they were excited about recognizing it as almost the same as what they were doing?

cheers

abel- siu, sil are the same. But...you probably know that already, so i'll be moving along.

[Sow Choy]

Sifu Abel,

Cool, pass him my email too: leekoonhungkungfu@hotmail.com tell him if he is gonna be my way drop a line...

I know the important stuff in Portugese... eu gusto de voce... all the pick up lines

Gene & Kung Lek...

The 2 times I was at Shaolin they were impressed by the Choy Lay Fut and knew right away it had come from Shaolin. And I myself saw alot of BL flavor in the forms. I trained at Shi Guulin's KF Brothers School. "Shaolin TV & Film Institute. Their KF was far ahead of some of the other schools I saw there, and I saw alot of traditional sets being practiced there...

But they told me for the shows no one wants to see the old stuff, they want them flying and flipping around... oh well... their traditional stuff was really nice...

Sifu Abel...

You goin to either Taji Legacy in Texas or John Leong's tournament in Seattle? MAybe we can meet up... If your in texas we will get Gene drunk and see his drunken form...

Peace,

Joe

[GeneChing]

...until it's too late.

My BSL 6 comment originated not only from observations of the monks, it comes from studying the Songshan Shaolin forms. There are certain principles that are consistent. For example, traditional Songshan Shaolin always runs a straight line, moving to the left first, and ends with the Jinnaluo pose. BSL 6 obeys the same principles (as does a few other BSL forms like 1 & 10). Reread my piece on BSL vs. Shaolin - I discussed this there. Beyond these observations, I'd add that there's a subjective parallel in the composition of BSL 6 that resonnates with the composition of many Songshan forms, at least to me. In a way, it sort of makes sense, since BSL 6 is the fundamental handset, the first to be taught, so it's the most well known and also the most consistent to it's roots. Of course, one can easily say that I'm just trying to justify/validate both systems out of personal bias.