Bak Siu Lam "Tun Da"

[norther practitioner]

Gene, you're just trying to justify all of this out of personal bias.

[GeneChing]

But now that you've brought it up, is there anyone else here that has practiced both BSL and Songshan Shaolin? Have we discussed this before? It seems like we would have, but I can't remember - too many blows to the head keeps things fresh for me sometimes

[NorthernShaolin]

Well i do not know Song Shaolin so my observation would be conversely of what the monks had observed. In other words. I'm looking at it from the other end of the room.

Both styles share what Gene already mention. In addition to what was already said, the body mechanics of of how the power is generated by the waist from the horse to the limbs and how the kicks are executed are similar. Also how each set is composed with the main techniques being presented and are connected together by transitional techniques follows the same format. Lastly the balance of Yin and Yang principles in the composition of the set within itself as it related to body meachnics and overall breathing are the same.

[Sow Choy]

Ahhh...

Another question....

Are there ever any sounds made in BSL forms? If not, is there a method of breathing in the forms?

GM Chan Kwok Wai told me he does heavy Chi Kung practice daily in order for him to still practice his BSL forms and jump kicks. I just saw him recently in Vancouver perform a Baji set, very impressive...

Joe

[SaekSan]

The only sounds would be that of "slapping the foot", "smashing the fist" or any of the strikes to the body presented throughout the sets, such as the part toward the end of Kai Men Chuan (Koi Moon). There would be no equivalent to the southern tradition of a "focused shout" or the Japanese concept of ki-ai.

Breathing method - Should be deep and centered but not forced, the breath should be co-ordinated with your movement. When striking the breath is lead out when blocking the breath is lead in.

My master would tell us that when practicing we should keep in mind these principles:

"The mind must internalize and concentrate"
"The breath sinks to the Dan Tien"

BTW - Hello NothernShaolin! Hope you are doing well.

[David Jamieson]

In all the Shaolin Kungfu I was taught, there are no shouts in any of it save one set from the southern stuff I was taught which contains a "Hi" sound drawn up from deep at one point in the set.

There are sounds in Tid sen of teh Hung Gar style as well which is also Shaolin in origin.

But in bsl, no sounds, just a relaxed face throughout and breath through the nose.

[GeneChing]

There's your breathing for BSL, in the eighteen iron body methods. That's the key to a lot of BSL, IMO.

This might annoy a lot of BSL people, but I do find Songshan Shaolin more advanced, deeper. There's a lot more coiling, akin to chansijing but different. There's more shen fa, more fajing, esepcially at the beginning levels. Now I think these elements exist in BSL, but they are not as pronounced.

[SaekSan]

The Iron Body methods are definately one component of the breathing exercises of BSL but I beleive Sow Choy was asking of breathing within the set or how to breathe while performing the set (correct me if I'm wrong).

Now, I don't find the comment annoying at all but it does bring up a question. You said:

"Now I think these elements exist in BSL, but they are not as pronounced"

Is it that they are not pronounced or is it that they are not developed (in depth) by the teachers/students?

What are your thoughts?

[Starchaser107]

soooo...

if one shouts during the bsl forms is it considered

incorrect?

[David Jamieson]

well, not ifyou are doing the form and your cat knocks over the planter with your new azalia in it.

Then, if so inclined, one may shout...at the cat that is.

[Starchaser107]

Seriously?

[SaekSan]

It would be incorrect according to the method our school teaches...

[herb ox]

...word up.

I give a shout at the end of BSL forms in the Jinnaluo (sp?) pose. I've seen Songshan exponents do the same, and frankly I don't care if it's right or wrong - there's a point where you want to show your power and focus, and bring attention to the final pose. Furthermore, since it's the last movement, it doesn't appear to be an issue of breath control (which, in BSL is "no control", or conscious timing of breath).

'sides, sometimes ya just gotta shout it out...


peace

herb ox

[Starchaser107]

I'm all for shouting...
but I don't see too many people doing it,
just wondered what the general position on this (shouting, or not) would be.
and if some bsl practicioners would look upon shouting during forms reproachfully with scorn in thier eyes and bitter distaste in thier mouths.

[Sow Choy]

The hero pose or "Jinaluo"...

Can anyone explain an application for it? Or is it just a tag?

Joe