kung fu vs untrained

[william]

There is a lot of talk about, kung fu vs MMA.

But one would hope that if you had an unwanted encounter on the street, uni, college bar what ever, it would be with someone who was not trained in a MA due to the side effects like, dicipline, etc.

So does the ma training make a difference against an untrained person?

For instance, I am a relative beginner In the MAs. I used to do Tae Kwon Do when I was 12, did it for a year. and quit. I picked it up at about 16 and did it for about another year or two, the en part of that was with a quite a progressive TKD style, they encorperated quite a lot of grappling which I liked. I then found a wing chun school and got hooked, practiced for about a year and a half, but due to lack of students it closed. After that I couldn't go back to a TKD school, So then I just trained alone for about 2 years, just going over the stuff I had learned in a year, trying not to lose what I had gainned, then went to university, did aikido for a bit, but packed it in when i found a kung fu school which teaches wing chun, mantis and choy la fut. I have been going twice a week now for about ten months, I am loving it and progressing well due to my previous training.

Aside for the MA I do a lot of bodyweight training and some lifting, I am bout 5'11 and 12 stone and like to think I am quite fit.

So my point Is I like to think I would have the upper hand in a situation where I was faced with an untrained opponent about my wieght and height.

I have never been in a real fight before, and lets just say that the hypothetical opponent hasn't either,

would I have edge to win?

W

Any responces would be greatly appreciated,

W

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by william

I have never been in a real fight before, and lets just say that the hypothetical opponent hasn't either,

would I have edge to win?

If you've never been in a fight, the chances that you'll get into a fight with someone who has never been in a fight are not great I think. If you are older than ten or so.

[william]

Ok fair enough,

say opponent has had a scuffel, look what I am trying to get a is that forget Bjj vs shaolin, would you be better off in fight which MA training??


sound like a silly question i know due to them being called Martial arts, but with all this reality training etc sometimes I wander.

I know a lot of it has to do with mental attitude, but just leave that out and think of plain physical skill.

Or is it completely useless, like you would be better of just being f**ing agressive,

[Apostol]

If you've watched videos of what real fights are like, trained your techniques to be in muscle memory, and trained your mindset half-decently, you'll do just fine. Especially with a style like choy li fut and mantis.

In CLF you can just flail your arms around and kill them that way (heh), in WC you can just chain punch them until they stop moving.

But yeah, you're on a good path. Especially with good systems like those, and not the mcdojo "block the punch and then own them, thats how the fight is" type place.


But if you're as "fit" as you say you are, you'd win anyway.

[CaptinPickAxe]

If you've watched videos of what real fights are like, trained your techniques to be in muscle memory, and trained your mindset half-decently, you'll do just fine

This untrue. You can do as much forms and techniques as you want, but with out full contact sparring when the first hit lands you'll realize. "Oh, Sh!t. I have to change my plan because ol' buddy is on me like stink on sh!t." Also, if you've never been hit full force you'll be in shock after the first good one is landed. Only for a second, but thats enough time to exploit your weakness and put a serious hurting on you.

If your serious about wanting to fight, Spar. Plain and simple. That is the only way to prepare for a fight...just fight.

If 100% sparring is too much for you, then work your way up from 50%...get comfortable...then move on.

[william]

What about the old self defence line, I guess one of the main reason for practicing MAs? Not wanting to be the best fighter, but wanting to be the best at dealing with confrontational situations, in so far as you come away with as least damage as possible, I guess their is a lot of ego involved with walking away from a fight.

I know in my original post i spoke about being able to handle my self in a fight, and you are right, but then would MA training give you a better chance at getting that crusial first blow?, or even doing something about one of his that is coming at ya?

So I think perhaps self defence and fighting are different.

To win 'fights' you need to spar hard etc, but perhaps not to defend yourself? I know it would be best to anyway but let me illustrate my point:

I read in a magazine a letter from someone who was getting ****ed off with people saying you are not going be able to defened yourself effectively unless you have pressure trained, u know full contact, adrenalin dump , etc etc. He quotes the example of a woman who had done a bit of kung fu, but still in the very early stages of training like a few months or so, who was approached by two men who asked her for her bag, b4 she had a chance to reply one of the men went for her, she responed by hitting the guy as hard as she could in the throat which sent him to the floor sharpish, the other went to help him and she legged it. when asked how she had got off such a good shot she said that it was an accident, and that she was aiming for his nose!

Effective self defence without full contact sparring?I guess she was lucky but you see what I am trying to say?

I for instance would like to have a go at full contact, just to see how I would fare, but it doesn't happen at my club, surely a big part of winning fights is self confidence, will to win? (and obviously training...) but better to think if sh*t is starting to hit the fan, "I am gona give this guy a beat down", than think "F*** its all over, I haven't sparred full contact"

??

W

W

[Apostol]

Yeah, I forgot sparring.

[CaptinPickAxe]

MA can help you get the first blow, but just because you get it doesn't mean the fight is one. Rarely do fights end in a single punch. Usually the ones that do are sucker punches.

[SevenStar]

I agree with cap on this one. MA training may or may not mean squat. Two of the biggest factors are mindset and circumstance. If he has a "kill you" mindset and you don't, you may not be prepared to deal with him. If he's already got a brick, knife, etc. in his hand, you may not be prepared to deal with him.

Theoretically, MA should give you more of a chance, but that's not necessarily so.

[reemul]

that ever since I brought the term "mindset" to the forums it is being used correctly.

Any way I would just like to add Untrained does not mean unskilled. There are plenty of "natural athetes" that can open a can of whoop a$$.

[SevenStar]

?

I've been using that term for years.

[LEGEND]

"Any way I would just like to add Untrained does not mean unskilled. There are plenty of "natural athetes" that can open a can of whoop a$$."

CORRECT...the hope is that your CMA training can give u the "natural athele" mindset and conditioning also.

[CD Lee]

Heck yes, and absolutely MA training will make a huge difference. Have you guys ever seen untrained fighters flailing like girls, with these wide weak punches? Hey maybe the guy you fight can throw a decent punch, but there are a ton of guys that can't. Even if they hit you, if you see it coming it may shock you, but it usually won't be a KO type punch.

My point is this. If you have the technique to throw say, a straight punch that is coordinated during practice, and is fairly well grooved, then you got something to work with better than you had before. That punch, even if you are scared ****tless, will be superior to a wide punch from another ****ed, scared guy with bad technique.

Ask yourself this question. Could you throw punches better than you could before you took MA? Then it helps, even if you get trashed in a fight. What were you gonna do before MA training? Let him hit you more?

[KingMonkey]

An untrained 120lb asthmatic accountant probably, an untrained 200lb construction worker who's been in a few scraps not so likely.
You dont know who or what you're going to meet. People tend to want absolutes but there are none.
Your current MA training should improve your chances, but following the advice of some of the previous posters in terms of incorporating more alive training would improve them further IMHO.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by CD Lee
My point is this. If you have the technique to throw say, a straight punch that is coordinated during practice, and is fairly well grooved, then you got something to work with better than you had before. That punch, even if you are scared ****tless, will be superior to a wide punch from another ****ed, scared guy with bad technique.

You can't assume he will be scared. As I stated in my post, mindset and circumstance mean everything. MA should give you a fighting chance - more of one than you had before - but will not guarantee anything.