kung fu vs untrained

[CD Lee]

I understand your point well.

Let me restate in another way. Any MA techinque should improve any untrained fighter. Of course that doesn't mean the next guy you go up against will not be a better fighter.

So no, MA does not guarantee a person the ability to beat an untrained fighter. It does however help a LOT, for a person to be able to fight, that had no fighting technique previously.

One exception on that front. Take a person who can already fight pretty well, at least decently without any MA training. If this person takes a MA for a while, and begins overthinking things, his abilitiy in a real fight may actually decrease. If he does A, I do B, if he does B, I do C, etc, etc. This can be a real problem for a person who already had a clear mind before MA. When I say clear mind, I mean before formal training, when in a fight, you pick your targets, and get to them anyway you can---> no preciceived techniques, just intention and action.

I am not saying all MA schools teach this way, but unfortunately, some do.

[KaiKhoon]

Excellent point Lee.

MA will also add confidence to your fighting, and I believe that is a factor of some percentage.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by unkokusai
If you've never been in a fight, the chances that you'll get into a fight with someone who has never been in a fight are not great I think. If you are older than ten or so.

sparring is invaluable......increases confidence, consitution and allows for practice of unexpected events and other variables...................

[SunBeam]

Martial Arts training, sparing, and conditioning help open the "possibilities" during a confrontation. Indeed are many variables that come up in a fight. Mindset has some infuence. I would have a different mindset on fighting if a guy was trying to hit on my girl and acting like a butt than if someone was trying to carjack me. You can be naturally inclined to defend and fight with natural moves that you have been accustom to and yes, you may come out ahead. For me, my study in MA has opened my mind to other ways to accomplish things. It can also validate some of what you already know there by increasing your confidence. A lot of guys I know would not even think about elbowing or short low kicks unless they have been exposed to some type of MA training. The old adage about "Any Given Sunday" in some respects is true but even if you miss the mark like the lady in the "I was aiming for the nose" analogy, being prepare (trained) afforded her the thought process and reflex to react period were she may have not tried at all with out it.

- SunBeam

[blooming lotus]

it's important to know how , but when and in what capacity is the question??????????????

[Aqira]

Martial arts provide an understanding and if trained right it instills improved habits. Being able to see, understand, and utilize possibilities and options is the primary advantage.

Also the preparation of training connects mind and body in violent situations. You do have to spar or have some means of doing…like anything there is the mental knowing and the physical knowing and martial arts training can offer both as well as a proven way to connect them.

As far as confidence…I think it is more important that through the training once you get past the initial infatuation you start to get a more realistic understanding of physical violence and confrontation. At any point realistic is one of the key words.

[Dark Knight]

At any point realistic is one of the key words.

The closer to reality your training is the better off you will be.

[YongChun]

Originally posted by CD Lee
I understand your point well.

<...some deleted...>
One exception on that front. Take a person who can already fight pretty well, at least decently without any MA training. If this person takes a MA for a while, and begins overthinking things, his abilitiy in a real fight may actually decrease. If he does A, I do B, if he does B, I do C, etc, etc. This can be a real problem for a person who already had a clear mind before MA. When I say clear mind, I mean before formal training, when in a fight, you pick your targets, and get to them anyway you can---> no preciceived techniques, just intention and action.

I am not saying all MA schools teach this way, but unfortunately, some do.

I do know of a case where someone was a pretty good fighter then studied Karate for awhile and after that could no longer fight because his natural fighting instincts got surpressed.

There is another story of a guy in Japan who was a very good swordfighter. Then one day he decided to study formally under a top Japanese swordsman. Years went by. Then after that he no longer had the courage he had before. Before he was unaware of the thousands of ways he could be killed off. Now he was very worried.

Of course in both cases if the individual stayed much longer then the situation may again reverse.

[blooming lotus]

learning is a never ending process, there'll always be a better and always be a worse........ BTW. no matter how "good" any of us think we are, there'll always be someone better.............

if you're taking the most violent option, and so are they.......... are you prepared for that???

[qiphlow]

will your training help? yes. will you win? maybe. will you get hurt in the process? probably.
think of adrenaline: both participants are HIGH AS F*** on adrenaline. hopefully, because of your training (ESPECIALLY if part of your training includes performing your techniques in a relaxed manner), you will be able to keep a clear head and use that adrenaline rush to your advantage, whereas the untrained participant will most likely be a big nervous bundle of energy without any focus. it does not necessarily mean without power or the instinct for self preservation, which in itself will drive people to do what they normally would not.
on another note: if you're gonna fight, FULLY INTEND to put your opponent on the ground as fast as you can, however you can. the longer it goes, the more tired you get, the greater your chances of injury. if it's a question of opponentS, better to run(the old adrenaline will work well here...).

[Meat Shake]

" no matter how "good" any of us think we are, there'll always be someone better............."

No, you're wrong. Everybody knows that Im the undisputed champion of everything in the universe.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Meat shake:

Why do you choose this name? Is this another term for w@nker?

"No, you're wrong. Everybody knows that Im the undisputed champion of everything in the universe."

This is what anyone who is about to attack you will think.

"if you're taking the most violent option, and so are they.......... are you prepared for that???"

and this is what MA should be prepaing you for. i don't agree that proper martial arts should confuse your think process. If this is what your class is doing to you, you should quit immediately and find a good northern kung fu school.

[Toby]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
Why do you choose this name? Is this another term for w@nker?

Kelvin, ever heard of Ugly Duckling? I personally think it's a fair bit more clever than "Goktimus Prime" or "Ego_Extrodinaire (sic)", or even Kelvin Chan.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Toby,

Kelvin is not even my middle name. I think you mistake me for someone else.

[Toby]

What should I call you? I'm not sure - at the moment I'm trying to decide between:

Kelvin Chan
Goktimus Prime
Ego_Extrodinaire
Blooming Lotus
Eyebrows

Who knows?