Do ALL your forms slow...

[red5angel]

Capoeira doesn't really have forms but they have some drills for one and two people. There are a couple of different speeds any of it can be played at. I use the slower speeds to work out the technical stuff, and the faster speeds to integrate it all.

[Becca]

Originally posted by MichiganMantis
The only thing I can't seem to slow down is when I have to jump in the air or something Have you overcome this problem yet GDA?

No jump in slow motion, but I like to put extra enfasis (sp?) on holding the stance right before and after just a bit longer and deeper than I would ata faster speed, the exagerate the hight of the jump.

[SPJ]

Yes, you do.

You may practice jump kick in the swimming pool.

You may practice your kick slowly by holding on to a chair or a bar connected to the wall.

You may lie your side on the floor and practice your outward swing kick and side kick slowly.

Of course, you have to practice balance on a single foot before anything else.

[Neckbones]

Good thread. Too bad SOMEBODY hasn't been saying this kind of stuff for years.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Originally posted by MichiganMantis
Good thread. Too bad SOMEBODY hasn't been saying this kind of stuff for years.

yeah, me. i told you .... im hardcore.

[David Jamieson]

when you are first learning techniques, you can only do them slow. You should "feel" the movements and the structure that contains the power in the technique.

Once you've done that, then work speed, then power.

If you are still working forms that are meant to be performed with speed and power slow so many years after learning them, then you probably haven't learned them...


cheers

[yutyeesam]

Doing 'em slow, AND infront of a mirror is superhelpful, if you know what details to look for.

Being narcissistic doesn't hurt either

I can see SevenStar's point tho about it not being of much benefit, tho. If you really don't know what you want to improve per se, then you are just doing your already sloppy and incorrect techniques slowly.

123

[Neckbones]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
yeah, me. i told you .... im hardcore.

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
i have been saying this on here for years, but no one listents to me cause im a fucktard

Which is it hardcore or....?

Sorry man. Messin with ya. I've been in a retarded mood lately.

But seriously, I've seen some vids of people doing forms where they're doing the forms way too fast. Power looks OK but the technique is sloppy. For show I guess speed is ok, but in a real situation, which is more important speed or technique? I mean you can have a lot of speed and power, but if the technique is sloppy, you're going to get your a$$ kicked because you didn't apply that speed and power correctly. On the other hand you might be a little slow but if technique along with power is good you're gonna f(_)ck 'em up, right? Or am I just being a retard?

[David Jamieson]

On the other hand you might be a little slow but if technique along with power is good you're gonna f(_)ck 'em up, right? Or am I just being a retard?

You need to keep in mind that you aren't dealing with a heavy bag, your dealing with a live person who is moving and may be equal or superior in skill and experience to you.

develop your kungfu to fit you. don't rely on conscious techniques, rely on your training to bring out the unconcious techniques. make note of those.

keep learning, but the more ingrained your techniques are with correct structure, the more you can use them with speed and power and increase your chances of landing a decisive shot.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

y guy ..... If you really don't know what you want to improve per se, then you are just doing your already sloppy and incorrect techniques slowly.

yeah but the point is to try and decapitate the sloppy.

[yutyeesam]

ok, then it's just incorrect.

[Becca]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
If you are still working forms that are meant to be performed with speed and power slow so many years after learning them, then you probably haven't learned them...

On the other hand, if you never work them slowly after learning them, ten years down the road, you may not remember how to break'em back down into thier elemental movements, espesially when you start getting a huge portfolio of forms under your belt. Makes it hard to teach it to someone else. You could also find you start to forget minut but critical steps. Doing it slow helps to make sure you aren't loosing part of you art's haritage.

[David Jamieson]

becca, you're making excuses. lol

of couse when a person knos a bunch of forms and they want to teach one they haven't done in a while, tehy will need to review it.

THat review will probably be a careful walk through, but I think that's not what is being said in general here.

Learn the form, do it slow to gain structure, then make the form more lively and perform it as it is meant to be performed.

Forms are just that. Shapes. They contain strings of techniques. If you know a bunch of forms from a style, it is likely that there is repitition of techniques throughout that styles' forms.

If you know the technique enough to use it for real, then you don't need to do it in any other way than how it should be done.

Besides, textbook moves are almost never how the tech works in reality. I think that anyone who has actually attempted to uise their style in a live situation would know that.

speed and power are what give life to techs. Spend too much time training slow and you will be slow and your kungfu will suffer because of it.

[Becca]

Besides, textbook moves are almost never how the tech works in reality. I think that anyone who has actually attempted to uise their style in a live situation would know that.

And many form have little transissions between textbook moves that my not be used in any other form. As you get good at it, you stop thinking of this transission as a technoque of it's own, and just do it. But what happens when you need to break it down for a student? You tell them how to do it. then you show it. To you it makes perfect sence, but what you see in your mind's eye and what the student sees with his/her untrained eye are very different.

I'm sure you are shaking your head in disagreement, but think about it. Written note to help refresh memory is one thing, but a form is more than a string of mechanical expressions. There are little newonces that make the form come to life when done properly. Practice is how you maintain it. Right? But how do you teach this if you can't breack it down with all the minut details intact? You can't. And if you can't successfully pass this knowledge on, then you fail your responsability as a desciple of your style.

[David Jamieson]

well, I do disagree to an extent, but I agree that the novice eyes do not see the same thing as the experienced eyes.

I also think that forms are very practical things that amount to time saving devices in the exploration of a system of combat techniques.

The physical body is the physical body, the mind is the mind, the breath is teh breath and shape is shape. If I want to put a nail into wood, I use a hammer and not a wrench.

I would know because of training to use a hammer and I would know how that hammer is used.

If I was completely in the dark, I wouldn't even know what the tools were and if I view the tools as art in and of themselve, as opposed to practical and useful items, then they will rust and become useless from lack of use.

Martial arts are "martial" first. LIttle nuances in the flip of a wrist matter in the inculcative process, but they amount to lick in full on sparring or real combat. You either are able to execute the technique, or you are unable.

If you train in a particular way, you are going to express in much the same way.

Yes , martial art is progressive, but too much rumination and introspectiveness can actually be detrimental to your development as a person who is able to "do" Kungfu.

I understand the value of the progressive path, and I understand teh value of maintaining your basics throughout time, but I think that purposely doing forms slow because of doubt, or unsureness in your self is detracting from being able to actually develop the techniques.

I do believe that forms are libraries of techniques and not secret energy dances. The simpler the angle you use to approach the knowledge, the more likely it is that you will gain a depth of understanding.

The mystical malarky only serves to cloud the reality and you wind up with a box of tools that have never built anything.