8 Horse Stances

[Mediocrity]

Ok...

I'm wondering how widespread this is known among the northern praying mantis styles.

I ran into someone who claimed to have had experience in 7 Star AND Northern Praying Mantis (first indication of something off)

and I mention the 8 basic horse stances off hand... and all I get is "wtf are those?" and "I dont see how thigh parallell horse stance helps you transition"

So are the 8 Basic Horse Stances just a Wah Lum thing or is it a common ground in the 12 northern praying mantis styles?

[Shaolinlueb]

i know of 1 horse stance...... didnt know there were 8 of em or do you jsut give the name 8 horse stances for all of em?

[MantisifuFW]

Greetings,

The Ba Shi or eight postures could be what he is talking about. (Though I am guessing).

In WHF tradition they are:

Ma Shi Horse Stance
Deng Shan Bu Hill Climbing
Tun Chang Bu Collapsing Stance
Ru Huan Bu Circle Entering Step
Kwa Hu Bu Ride the Tiger Step
Zhong Shi Middle Posture
Qixing Bu Seven Star STep
Pu Tui Treading Kick

Most styles of Tanglang have an Eight Postures concept. It is a drill we do every class at the appropriate level.

Great Question...hope I answered it.

STeve Cottrell

[Mediocrity]

Im very unfamiliar with the terminology, but reading it over I think it translated well in my head.

Many thanks Steve. I was hoping us Wah Lum people were not alone in the concept of the 8 Horse Stance routine used for transitioning.

[MantisifuFW]

M.

As far as I know, the concept of Eight Horses, P'at Ma Bo or Bat Ma Bo, Eight Horse Stances, has always been a part of Wah Lum though my knowledge is VERY limited.

Horse Stance
Hill Climbing
Lady Horse
Cat
Seven Star
Crushed, (some would say empty leg)
Kneeling
Butterfly

They do not seem to function along the same intent as the Ba Shi of WHF though I am told that they are essential for being able to perform the demanding level of flexiblity and strength in WL sets.

Glad to be of help,

Steve Cottrell

[Mediocrity]

Perhaps, I couldn't be certain though. My knowledge as an MA newbie is limited to WL itself. I haven't had the chance to speak to those from other styles or watch them extensively to expand myself yet.

But the fellow I questioned had experience in 7* and I had thought they used the same 8 Basic Horse Stance as us and he was left clueless. Either way, I learned something new. Thanks Again.


Aaron.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Mediocrity
I can't imagine anyone really being clueless (other than the terminology). Every style of Kung Fu has basic stances with at least 3 or 4 being common among all the styles. They might have a different name for them but they will look the same. You will even see them in Karate. In MantisifuFW's post I picked out 4 that match WL. I'm sure another 1 or 2 will be familiar if I saw them. Some styles have a back stance which is Dai Bok Ma in WL.

Also, the number 8 is very common in the Chinese arts. WL has 8 Basic Stances, 8 Basic Punches and 8 Basic Kicks.

Shaolinlueb
How is it you only know one horse stance? Never heard of a style with just one.

[Mediocrity]

Well, that's the thing. I only mentioned terminology AFTER I mentioned an 8 stance routine, which I figured he would've recognized. The only reason I was even bothering to ask because he claimed a lot of things that seemed off.

More or less mostly taking some northern praying mantis style and seven * and not knowing who Sigung Chan was among other things.

Had to make sure with the guys who knew.

Thanks again,
Aaron.

[mantis108]

I agreed with Sifu Cottrell. Terminology varies quite a bit but the teacher should be able to identify these across the board. Some of the discrepency came from the spoken dialects. Also different translations from Chinese to English have a hand in the confusion. I suspect that could be the case. But then if there are a lot more discrepencies in information than just terminology, it could be the fellow in question is trying to impress you with his "understanding" or rather the lack there of the said art/style.

There is a lot more than meets the eyes with the Jiban Ba Shi (8 basic stances). Its place in mantis is so important that it is often mentioned with the 12 characters principle. We often hear it as Ba Shi Si Er Zi (8 stances 12 characters). The first lesson of PM would pretty much be learning these through standing in the postures, which is called Zhan Ba Shi.

Every style and lineage (styles) would have it's own requirements and standard for these 8 stances. Most styles would have applications to go with the stances. It is highly possible that on the first day of training while learning these stances, you would learn the applications of them as well. This is one of the reasons why the mantis approach is highly practical and sophisticated.

In CCK TCPM, these stances are done in a sort of a form (Ba Da Ma Bu) that includes basic punches, palm strikes, Chin Na, etc... Other TJPM styles would work with these as individual step (Bu) as well; hence, the name Ma Bu or the repeated use of the word Bu. For example, Yuhuan Bu (Jabe Ring Step) would be taught as a takedown application. It is not entirely static as in a Ma (standing posture) but it is also Bu (steps). Both static and dynamic (yinyang/Taiji) situations are addressed. Thus, Taiji is not a mere concept but tangable principle even in the styles' foundation building phase.

Once the ma and bu are in good order then Bu Fa (footwork), Jibenquan/San Shi, etc would be taught.

So from time to time revisit the basics. It's a good thing.

Mantis108