xingyi question

[Chang Style Novice]

Okay, I don't know much about this style at all, but once several months ago I was shown a basic (I think beginning) form from it.

It mostly seemed fairly obvious and evident and efficient to me but with one exception that stood out in my mind at the time and I still haven't been able to figure out in my head.

There was one straight punch - a right, about solar plexus level - that happened at the same time as a backward step of the left leg.

What's going on here? It seems like a p!sspoor way to generate any power, even if you are throwing your right hip forward with the punch as your left leg goes backwards.

I hope I remember what I saw clearly enough and have described it well enough for this thread to actually have some utility.

[blooming lotus]

no expert either, but it sounds like a set-up step to get weight back on front....................



as opposed to weight on back and change over distribution or execution from rear...............

[baji-fist]

You may want to check out the Emptyflower Forum. Most of the posters on there are xingyiquan players.

[Volcano Admim]

create space

then fill it

is one of the things you can do

[cerebus]

It sounds like you're describing a right hand "Beng Chuan" while stepping back with the left foot. The power for this comes from rooting the stance & sinking the hips while executing the punch. It takes practice to get the coordination right, but you can generate quite a bit of power with it.

Also take into account that it's usually executed with the step back because your opponent is advancing in a way that would "jam" or "crowd" your punch if you tried to advance. You're creating the correct distance to land the punch. And with the opponent's forward drive taking him into the punch the impact can be pretty hard.

[jungle-mania]

I never studied xingyi before, but I learn something similar in my training in TMA. It is the same technique, except the left hand pulls the opponent's punching hand at the same time. This is then followed by an elbow lock or a knee to the ribs. The technique you described from xingyi can be seen in karate and jujitsu, except the footwork distance varies from each art.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by cerebus
It sounds like you're describing a right hand "Beng Chuan" while stepping back with the left foot. The power for this comes from rooting the stance & sinking the hips while executing the punch. It takes practice to get the coordination right, but you can generate quite a bit of power with it.

Also take into account that it's usually executed with the step back because your opponent is advancing in a way that would "jam" or "crowd" your punch if you tried to advance. You're creating the correct distance to land the punch. And with the opponent's forward drive taking him into the punch the impact can be pretty hard.

Muhammed Ali made a living off of this technique. Get his opponent to advance, advance, advance, then BAM!; plant the back foot and hit. Same principle (internal energy generation aside).

[Ray Pina]

Don't think of it as "stepping back" with the left. Think of it as pushing off with the right, and using that power to sing the right elbown and add depth to the strike.

Elements are ideas, little home work thingies to take home and increase your ability. Beng Shuan is used for creating space. Intercept a strike and use your elbow to sink the strike down while piecing in with the fist, ect. That is just one example. When you know the formula you can put it into many different forms.

Hsing-I is about power more than it is about A,B, C technique against D,E,F technique. Know how to collapse somebody. Know how to pick someone up who's trying to collapse you..... Bear, Bear, Bear and the foot, foot, foot.

[rogue]

Sounds like the last 2 moves of the Chonji pattern in TKD and I was taught it the way Cerebus described it. Fun to use to sucker agressive partners with.

[Ray Pina]

I have a few dollars in my pocket and so does Bill Gates....

I have two eyes, a nose and a mouth .... so dose my dog.

Am I the same as Bill Gates or my dog?

[Chang Style Novice]

With regard to those features under discussion, yes.

[Ray Pina]

And you miss the exact point.


Martial artists often look and see "the same thing" and yet Bill Gates' buying power and mine are uncomparable. A fool who doesn't grasp what paper money represents will see we both have a $5, $20 and even $100 bill in our wallet but not understand the difference in intrinsic worth or value .... and be careful, you might just wind up screwing a dog one day finding she has many of the same properties as Pamela Anderson.

[Chang Style Novice]

So anyway, if I'm reading you guys right, what's going on with this move is a little different from what I thought I saw. Basically, the striking hand is moving forward at the same time the leg moves back, but impact doesn't occur until the back foot has had a chance to plant and root, although the motion begins without a root. So timing (as is so often the case) is critical.

Sound right?

[Chang Style Novice]

crosspost - and I think I'd rather bone a pound puppy than Pam Anderson anyway.

But more seriously, if motions reflect mechanics (and I don't see how they cannot) then identical motions will create identical mechanics, and therefore power. Without regard to whether you call it xingyi, tkd or boxing.

[Christopher M]

You can root from the front leg and generate significant power from the waist with the movement that throws your empty leg backwards; it's just rather unintuitive (or was for me anyway).

The wu xing ("five elements") which are the basic forms in xingyi are also usually understood as general formats for training force mechanics, rather than simply the strikes they look like; so that kind of a leg movement can be used, for instance as a takedown like o soto gari.

There's walk-throughs of the xingyi forms here following the 'Crushing' link that might have what you're describing.