Chan CLF: Buddha Fist form

[Judge Pen]

Is this a form that you Chan practitioners have? I'm looking for some background on this form.

[Fu-Pow]

I assume you are referencing Dino Salvatera's form called the Buddha Fist.

His lineage of CLF (from Futsan) is quite different than the Chan Family version.

Having looked at that video trailer it looks a lot more like Hung Ga to me, especially in application. I'm not trying to say it IS Hung Ga just saying that it appears to have more of a Hung influence.

Anyways, the Chan Family CLF is quite a bit different. It is a bit more dynamic and for lack of a better term "springy."

The arm techs are much longer and it looks an awful lot more like Northern fist styles.

The Chan Family branch has a set called Fut Jeung or Buddha Palm set.

The thing that you run into with CLF is that it was designed to be taught enmass. It was taught over a large area in Southern China.

The result is that the style is fragmented. Names of forms have changed, forms have been added and modified and depending on where and by whom the art was practiced influences from other martial styles have been brought in.

However, apparently the Chan Family has done a very good job of keeping records through the years. They have manuscripts that detail the names and movements of all the forms in their portion of the system. One must keep in mind though that many of those forms were added and modified thru the years just as what happened in the other branches. It's just that they kept more consistent records of it.

CLF like most styles of kung fu is constantly evolving.

[Judge Pen]

No, I asked Master Dino about it. The research I've done is that it's a Chan form. I understand that Chan and Hung Sing CLF are somewhat different and that they even have different sets

Fu Pow, do you know this set? If so, what are the guiding principles of this form? What's it's origin?

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
No, I asked Master Dino about it. The research I've done is that it's a Chan form. I understand that Chan and Hung Sing CLF are somewhat different and that they even have different sets

You asked about the Buddha "Fist" set.

As far as I know there is not a Buddha "Fist" set in Chan Family CLF.

If you want I can send you a list of Chan Family forms.

There is, however, a set called Buddha "Palm" or Fut Jeung.

I didn't learn this set and my teacher doesn't teach it. However, I have a tape of my Sisuk Joe Keit doing the form.

I'm sure it probably looks very different from whatever you learned from Sifu Dino.

[Sow Choy]

Fu pow,

How you doin? I will be in Seattle, I hope we can hook up while I am there.

Joe

[Fu-Pow]

That would cool. Are you coming up for our tournament?

[Sow Choy]

Unfortunately not...

I received info on your tournament too late, I already booked my tickets for Sifu Leongs tournament. Sifu Mak must have planned this one quickly. If I would have known earlier I might have been able to go. Wish he would have planned it at a different time.

If you can email or pm your cell number i will call you when I get there. i saw some of your KF brothers in Vancouver, and we all want to get together and hang out, so hope you will have time.

Joe

[Troy Dunwood]

Hello, just to clarify this, as some may have seen the listing of sets on our joybotsin website along with my sifu Dino Salvatera video trailer, concerning the form Buddha Fist. This set is passed down from Sifu Choy Siu Ming from Sifu Chan Leung it is not a Futsan Hung Sing Set. Although I doubt if it's an original set, but then again whats original, I doubt very seriously if we have the style as Chan Heung or Hung Sing created them. Chan Leung by the way was a famous Shaw Brothers fight choreographer who worked along with the likes of Lau Gar Leung and others. If you see listed on our site in reference to choy lee fut we have to grand teachers, Dino Salvatera and Choy Siu Ming with the latter being of the Chan Family line and not Futsan.

Troy Dunwood

[Judge Pen]

I apologize; it seems that I've caused some confusion. I didn't learn this set from Master Dino. I havent' learned anything from Master Dino, but I was fortunate enough to meet him and some of his students and participate in a Lion Dance and demonstration in Atlanta with them. I was asking about a Buddha Fist (or more correclty a Buddha Palm") set in Chan CLF that I heard about and was wanting to learn more about it's origins.

Troy, thank you for your response. That gives me more of an idea about this set.

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Sow Choy
Unfortunately not...

I received info on your tournament too late, I already booked my tickets for Sifu Leongs tournament. Sifu Mak must have planned this one quickly. If I would have known earlier I might have been able to go. Wish he would have planned it at a different time.

If you can email or pm your cell number i will call you when I get there. i saw some of your KF brothers in Vancouver, and we all want to get together and hang out, so hope you will have time.

Joe

Aww...too bad. Well regardless we'll hook up. I may be competing at Leong's tournament also.

Take care and I'll PM you.

Peace.

[yutyeesam]

Does Chan Family have a Lo Hon Kune set? Could this be seen as a Buddhist Fist set?

123

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
I apologize; it seems that I've caused some confusion. I didn't learn this set from Master Dino. I havent' learned anything from Master Dino, but I was fortunate enough to meet him and some of his students and participate in a Lion Dance and demonstration in Atlanta with them. I was asking about a Buddha Fist (or more correclty a Buddha Palm") set in Chan CLF that I heard about and was wanting to learn more about it's origins.

Troy, thank you for your response. That gives me more of an idea about this set.

Well I can tell you this.

CLF supposedly has some origins in the Shaolin Temple.

The Buddhist monks at Shaolin were supposed to be non-violent but in all practicality it was necessary that they be able to defend themselves. So their two main weapons were the staff (which doubled as a walking stick) and the palm techniques (which looked more innocuous than a fist.)

However, as with most facets of CLF (and other martial styles) the technique probably proceeded the name of the set. That is, the "Buddhist" palming techniques made their way into CLF because they are extremely effective for hitting "hard" targets like the skull and jaw. A fist to the skull will hurt you like it hurts your opponent.

At some point someone compiled all the palming techs into one set and knowing the story about Shaolin concluded a good name for the set would be Buddha Palm.

That's my educated guess. Maybe someone else here has a better idea of it's actual origin.

[Eddie]

Fu Pow,
I have seen some lists name Fut Jeurng Kuen (Buddha palm fist) and Fut Gar Jeurng (Buddha Palm). Probably the same form, but I was thinking as some time back you did some research on the CLF forms and the different lineages, do you know which lineages call it by which name? Or are they two different forms in some lineages?

Judge pen,
as Fu Pow said, I suggest you buy Master Li Siu Hung and Sifu joe Keit’s video on the Buddha Palm form. If I remember correctly, the video do have some explanation on the style and theory, but basically the techniques speaks for it self. Pretty much a must have for your kung fu video collection.

Sow Choy,
While on the topic of palm styles, I have been meening to ask you this for some time (maybe I have already asked you, but I cant remember). I originally learned that ping kuen was translated as peaceful fist. That’s how we always used to know it. I remember you told me that it was called Level Fist, and most references use that translation. Which one is the correct translation for the correct name, or doesn’t it really matter? Both names could describe the form, so I was just wondering.

Ed

[SifuX-HSK]

hey,

i'm not sure if we met in san francisco at the last gee tuk association, but it is me frank, and if you don't know i am your sifu's senior classmate and i warn you not to get too caught up on this line. peace!

to fu pow-

our choy lee fut was changed by lau bun to fit the american lifestyle. certain approaches and techniques would not be effective against these larger americans during his time so he changed the usage and applications according to need. that is why we call ourselves american hung sing choy lee fut.

my sifu is a true master in all ways and has an extreme amount of knownledge to share with those who wish to learn. remember the chan family created and developed their clf according to their needs and so did the hung sing branch. not one of the branches look like each other. i am sure that the hung sing branches buddha palm forms would not look much different than yours or any other forms.

the chan family continued to create form after form and only taught it to their own family. jeong yim and tam sam created forms unique to our own family.

regardless, forms (all forms) were not created by the gods and were there since the beginning. chan heung and jeong yim were just MEN, nothing else. they were two human beings who created a fighting style and set the wheels in motion for the next generations to further the style and even modify to work for current times. so who cares what branch has this or that form, if one branch does not have it-create it. if choy lee fut is all you have practiced your whole life then all you do from the way you think, move and react, inside of you is choy lee fut. not fogetting, if the new form is effective or not? it is authentic because you created it.

master salvatera possesses a pure clf mentality, and teaches you to use choy lee fut for self defense. forms is not his main objective. tournaments is not his focus. he wants top quality students who will excell in choy lee fut and become masters themselves.

keep an eye out for more of our dvd's, i am also working on some my self and if you want to know more email me at hungloonghsk@hotmail.com

master salvatera deserves the recognition he is soon about to receive. and the world will get a better look into the oldest existing gung fu school in the united states. a school that has purely practiced and taught lau bun's hung sing choy lee fut throughout 8 decades.

keep a debate with me off of this forum, email me to discuss anything further.

a big whats up to sifu chad meyers and all of his students in georgia, and to my students in Kansas, and texas.

sifu frank mccarthy

[Fu-Pow]

Frank-

I'm not sure what your point was. It doesn't sound like we are disagreeing but it sounds like you are trying to find something to disagree about.

From what I've seen of "pure" Chan Family CLF vs. "pure" Jeong Hung Sing CLF there are some pretty striking qualitative differences.

Not saying one is better than the other.

Overall I'd say the Jeong Hung Sing stuff looks more "down to earth" and practical while the Chan Family stuff is more athletic and dynamic.

Lee Koon Hung's CLF (my Sigung) was a mix of many different elements including CLF teachers from both Chan and Hung Sing branches. In addition he spent some time with Shek Kin and you see some of that Northern fist influence.

My Sifu (Mak Hin Fai) CLF is different in some ways from Lee Koon Hungs. That's because he spent a good portion of time in Southern Mantis and Hung Gar. And even some Judo.

My CLF is slightly different than my Sifu's because I started in Hung Gar and I've studied Chen Taiji almost as long as I've studied Choy Lay Fut.

Anyways, you get my point. Forms change and evolve over time. Nothing wrong with that. In fact its all a natural part of the process.

Look at the very roots of CLF....3....3.....3 styles in one!