"Friendly" match goes bad

[Ray Pina]

So I skipped training on Friday because of heavy rains, flooding and traffic.

Enjoying being home on a Fri. after work instead of heading into Manhattan I was BBQ some chicken and walking the circle as it cooked. My landlord knocked on my door and introduced me to a friend visiting from Florida.

Turns out he does some Korean art and starts showing me how they are both hard and soft but he likes the soft and he's pretty ****y. A little taller than me but probbaly only 180-185. I'm 197 right now.

So we start to play but I'm getting aggrovated. I'd jam him, turn him completely around and ride him into my wall (holding my strikes) only to have him turn around and dive at my legs when I let go. Then we'd fight on the ground. I got above him with a headlock and could have been kneeing the **** out of him but didn't, just holding the lock, and he PULLED MY HAIR! At that point I realised this guy A) isn't that good and B) is a real ***** of a sour loser.

After that I gave him my head gear and preceded to beat the crap out of him, breaking his necklace and his watch.

This sort of thing has happened on a lesser level before and always bothers me but I've never seen it like this before.

Also, even though I was holding strikes in the beginning and simply controlling him, he was able to get me into a headlock that made my neck stiff on Sat. and Sun. I still need to work on that type of clinching because I like to fight face to face.

[red5angel]

so let's see, this guy was able to take you down, and used some real world tactics (hair pulling can work folks), and you break his necklace and watch and HE sucks?

[Ray Pina]

I'll explain to you what happened in better detail then:

On our first exchange I was able to get to his outside gate and push him back about 6 or 7 feet till he hit the wall ... I pinned him with my left and my right was free to strike him the entire time.

After reaching the wall and nowhere left to drive him and not wanting to hit him or kick him -- I felt I demonstrated that I had control of him -- I released the pressure and he dove for my legs ... at that point I thought that engament was over and was going to return to the center of my training area to go again.

I rode out his attack, using my left forearm again to pin him. He kept coming so then I locked him .... if it was a real fight I would have begun kneeing his face ... but he continued to drive me back and I was aproaching my little bamboo partition that seperates where I train and where I live (watch TV, write, sleep, ect.).

So at that point I changed tactics and went down to the ground on my own .... I did not crank his kneck as I could have, because I don't know what that would have done, maybe cause some damage. But having done this, he grabbed my hair. I got out, we broke and then we did this again. I pinned him on the left wall. I pinned him on the right wall. I pinned him all over but he would refuse to acknowlegde that he was being beaten and would continue to fight after I let up a bit.

So I gave him head gear. We went again. I'd hit him a few times and drive him against the wall and when he fought out I'd hit him a few times. What made fighting him difficult is that he turned his back anytime he was overwhelemed. If he was a stranger attacking me on the street I'd just clobber the base of his skull/spine but this was someone visiting my landlord that I invited into my home. He trained, believe it or not, in copeira and TKD in the past, and now another Korean system that sounded hokie to me (said he's learning mantis techniqes at this school.)

Anyway, during a few of the exchanges that we had while he was backed up against the wall I tore off his hemp necklace (not sure how that happned) and the face of his watch broke against the handle of a closet or something... he also put a little crack in my wall but it was bound to happen sooner or later anyway. I'll move a picture to cover it.

Afterwards the guy complained about his watch and how he wasn't familiar with the surroundings and wasn't used to that type of sparring. The thing is I wanted to keep it friendly but he would not recognize.

Have you ever experienced this? I get that a lot in chi sauing but in sparring, people usually either want to keep it light or really go.

He wanted to keep it light but not lose and was enjoying the fact that he wasn't getting hit at first so why not keeping going even though he was completely turned.

If someone is good enough to stop your attack, turn you and pin you, believe me, they are good enough to get strikes in .... that's the easy part.

[Hermes3X]

Pardon me, Evolution, what is your base/home style?

[yenhoi]

LOL.

This is a vital part of MA training. You did good, you did your job as the higher skilled player. Too bad about the neck. That really ****es me off when some new random guy comes in muscling his way around getting tooled, but still managed to tweak your neck for a few days.

[Mutant]

it sounds like some kind of 'girl fight'.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by MutantWarrior
it sounds like some kind of 'girl fight'.

in girl fight do you mean shaolin-do fight?

[Ray Pina]

The engine fueling the whole thing at this time is definitely of Hsing-I origin, in that I try to maintain my shape/structure and drive off the back foot. Shoulders driving the elbow driving the fist is also of top priority.

My general tactic right now if to take a right lead with the idea of intercepting whatever is initially throw by striking it with the lead but having the back hand support it so that it creates an X shield in the general incoming area. Once contact is made, I then rush in using the elbows to block or jam the following blows .... For example, I'll counter punch the guys right lead punch .... my forearms looking like this: X in front of me and crash in .... My right elbow will come up to cover my head as I come in ..... chi sau from there. ..... same idea against kicking though I tend to attack with a low lead leg front kick to nuetralize the kick as I come in.

My stuff is changing though right now. Over the past few months I've been shown some new materials which has me thinking and this was my first out of class encounter in about 2 months -- been surfing and chilling a bit.

....

Posted this to get some feedback from others about this type of recation from people because it's starting to get on my nerves. About a year a go I got a nasty black eye when I got inside of someone chi sauing and didn't shock their head only for them to roll the elbow. My teacher saw this but blaimed me, said I should have controlled him till the end, and if necessary, hit him anyway.

I've sort of learned the lesson but tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt because when someone gets me of course they tend to apologize for getting me good but I say, "No, good shot." I expect the same from other MA.

Anyway, that's all I had to say and I'm going to start minimizing my posts for a while because I see the board getting hostile again. I like to discuss martial arts at a martial art forum but when I post something in all honesty and with positive intentions and get some of these replies insinuating that I'm fabricating or attacking me, why bother.

If it's one thing I learned, it's that fighting is a completely chaotic event .... who knows what will happen and how. I can only control what I do in an effort to turn things in my favor.

In general, I was very happy with the outcome but as a practicing MA unhappy that this guy was able to get my head .... that only bothers me because it was a variable that had effect in my last ring fight and I thought I nixed it, but fighting is a completely chaotic .....

[Meat Shake]

Yup...
Being too nice is just hurting yourself 9 times out of 10. I cant even count how many times Ive gone gentle on someone who is going full, just to have them hit me and think they are 'winning'....

[Mutant]

hey man, i was just messing with you not being hostile, i thought the little smiley face would indicate that. i mean, come on, youre talking about a fight that includes hair-pulling and miffed feelings over broken jewelery, hehe. don't cut back your posting over a little ribbing.

[Mutant]

i find that most people you meet outside of a serious training club can't handle sparring, and i'm talking as much about attitude and insecurity-wise as skill level. and i don't intend that as a dis to them, they just havent learned how to spar as youre expecting them to. which is understandable because they probably have never done enough quality sparring to get the interactive part of it and let go of their ego, or recognize when someone's holding something back and taking it easy.

so to me it comes down to 2 choices:
a) blow them off all together and duck out of sparring, even if it means humbling your own ego.
-or-
b) take them out quick, overwhelm them, neutralize them or pin them, without really hurting them.

if you expect them to 'play' fair, they never will and they most likely won't recognize when you have them trumped and are being nice. and their ego and temper will flare and they'll inevitably try some cheap sh!t and spaz out.

so its best just to default to choice a) and blow it off.

sometimes you do meet somebody that makes a good sparring partner to exchange things with and try things out on and thats a cool thing and can be fun. sure sometimes there's an injury, but thats to be expected in martial arts, and if someone's experienced sparring, they'll understand that too.

you can usually tell the difference between people before you start sparring. if theyre a delusional spaz or ego tripping then don't waste your time unless youre willing to take them out. in that case its not a situation to try new techniques and material or expect fair interaction to test your latest theory.

okay, how's that for a serious reply to contribute to the message bored? i liked my first response better.

[The Willow Sword]

When you are in a Match like that, whether it be "friendly" or not,,dont pull your Skills or hold back,,,dont brutalize they guy but you have to show skills.

I remember matches like these in the past where i would be nice and pull my stuff and they would come in all aggressive as if they were condifent that they had the upper hand. Then aggravation set in and "POP" ,,,,lessons learned and respect earned.

This is a beginner sparring nightmare (what do you do,,do you pull your strikes,,geez what if i get hit and it gets out of hand???)
Remember what it is that you are practicing,,studying,,training in.
I dont like the violence and getting hit just as much as the next guy,,,but thats the reality that i accept everytime some knuckle head wants to flex.

Kudos to you for being courteous EF. Next time maybe ask the level at which they wish to spar at. then there wont be any confusion.


Peace,,,TWS

[Chief Fox]

I've sparred with idiots like this before.

In my class we use no pads when sparring in order to rely on the techniques. Usually between sparring partners there is good communication. Sometimes that communication is verbal like "nice sweep" or "that was good, you would have caught me with that one" and sometimes it is physical like making light contact. I also sometimes stop a kick right before contact and hang it there for a second to let my opponent know that they would have gotten kicked right there.

Anyway, I'm sparring this "idiot" one time and I'm trying to communicate with him. So I'm hanging my leg there to let him know that he would have been kicked. The only problem is, he doesnt' take my leg hanging there as a sign that he would have been kicked, he grabs on to it and proceeds to push me over backwards onto my back. it doesn't matter to him that had I been going full on that he'd be the one laying on the ground. So after this I proceed to really kick him and back him up all the way across the training hall.

Anyway, my point is. Some people get it and some people don't. The people that get it have a life time of martial arts ahead of them. The people that don't, will probably move on to another art or quit all together or maybe even end up getting hurt. So don't let the idiots get to you. You can actually learn from them. They're great people to go all out on. :-)

[rubthebuddha]

i think it was merryprankster who had the best suggestion to this a while back:

"why don't you go at a level your comfy with and i'll match it."

if they go a little too hard, ask them to match yours instead.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by EvolutionFist


He wanted to keep it light but not lose and was enjoying the fact that he wasn't getting hit at first so why not keeping going even though he was completely turned..

Yet another reason to learn how to grapple effectively.