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Thread: The Boxer Rebellion

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    Yet Muslims have a huge mystic tradition. Jews were banned from practicing magic, but have one of the most well known magic traditions.
    Christians were banned from practicing magic, Christian magic traditions are well known.
    hardcore extremist muslim school began with the wahab guy in 1850s. chinese scholars met him on their pilgrimage and brought back that ideology, it led to internal hui civil war supported by qing govt. extremists were defeated and were accused of trying to become non chinese.

    this led to hui ideology in china shifting to nationalism core. this in turn led the hui battalion to support the boxer rebellion. most of the boxer rebels actually fighting were gansu hui battalion, the farmers ran home. this let the hui fight christians and prove their loyalty to china.

    about 20 thousand hardcore kung fu masters stayed behind, 200 thousand farmers ran home the night before. because boxers were technically infidels the hui army used them as human shields. this was the source of the "savage horde" reports
    Last edited by bawang; 01-04-2015 at 11:55 AM.

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  2. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post

    shaolin temple 8 step linked boxing is 100% classic boxer rebellion era kung fu.
    Is this related to the modern form, Ba Bu Lian Huan Quan, you see in Songshan, Ying Jow, ect.?
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    Is this related to the modern form, Ba Bu Lian Huan Quan, you see in Songshan, Ying Jow, ect.?
    lian huan quan was sound morphed from lian hua quan, lotus flower boxing.

    babu lianhuan quan fist poem is also an oddity that stands out, it talks about wu song come down from heaven and killing demons who are attacking his mother. at the end of the fist poem its clear wu song symbolizes you and his mother is the chinese people.

    wu song was a very popular character in boxer possession rituals.

    wu song breaking handcuffs is prolly also from boxer rebellion
    Last edited by bawang; 01-04-2015 at 12:12 PM.

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  4. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    no just folk kung fu. any type of magic talk was punished by beheading in ming dynasty army.
    Ming Army magic...

    In addition, Mao Yuanyi (1594-1640), the composer of the greatest and most
    comprehensive military encyclopedia, the Wubei zhi, who had extensive combat
    experience in the field, includes in his section on “Prognostications” (“Zhan” 占)
    a series of esoteric ritual performances and prayers (Yanrang 厭 禳) to counteract
    baleful influences that a general might encounter in the course of his duties.
    These, he says in his preface, are not matters that a gentleman (junzi) speaks
    about (茅 子 曰 厭 禳 君 子 所 不 道 也). He describes a ritual to exorcize an
    epidemic (ji 疫) which involves the burning of the heads of captured enemy
    soldiers—we should not be surprised that such rituals were recommended by a
    late Ming literatus (shidafu 士 大 夫) like Mao Yuanyi, since in contemporary
    late imperial popular culture rituals to exorcize plague demons were quite common,
    witness the cult of the military deity Marshal Wen 溫 元 帥 in Zhejiang
    province analyzed by Paul Katz.57 Mao describes another of these rituals that
    was intended to counteract the powerful influence of a royal qi emanating from
    an enemy general.
    厭 王 氣 法,敵 之 王 氣 久 而 不 衰 者,觀 其 氣 王 於
    何 方,當 六 甲 旬 首 正 子 時,於 營 中 月 空 上,環
    三 九 步,以 朱 畫 八 卦 壇 法 成 三 界,其 內 畫 十 二
    辰,及 月 將 之 名,東 西 南 北 相 去 等,前 取 黑 狗
    雞 各 一,大 將 披 素 服,左 手 仗 劍,右 手 按 二 畜,
    北 面 立,默 誦 敵 將 名 氏,即 殺 之,埋 於 氣 王 之
    方,深 三 尺,氣 衰 則 去 之。
    The method of suppressing a royal qi (wang qi): When an
    enemy’s royal qi has long endured and not declined, observe
    the direction where his qi rules. Then just at the zi time at
    the beginning at the Six Jia weekly cycle, in the middle of
    the encampment beneath a moon in the void, circumambulate
    in twenty-seven paces, with vermilion draw the model
    of an altar of the Eight Trigrams, and create a triple boundary.
    Inside draw the twelve chronograms (shier chen), the
    name of the Moon General, the directions east, west, south,
    and north separated from each other, and so on. In front of
    the altar take each of one black dog and one black ****. The
    general puts on plain clothing, and in his left hand brandishes
    a sword, and in his right takes the two animals. He
    stands with his back to the altar, chants the given name and
    surname of the enemy general, and then kills the animals
    and buries them three feet deep in the direction where the qi
    rules. When the qi declines, you will be able to get rid of
    it.58
    This is a fascinating text that deserves a much fuller interpretation than I can
    give it here. Suffice it to say that in such a period of disorder as the late Ming, it
    was thought that a “royal qi,” evidently believed to be present independently in
    the cosmos or generated by an individual’s morally correct behavior, could attach
    itself to a rebellious general. A loyal general fighting on the side of the
    Ming emperors could destroy this “royal qi” by creating a powerful cosmic centered
    ritual space protected by the spirits of the Eight Trigrams, the powerful
    spirits of the months that we see in Liu Ren, Qimen, and Dunjia divination tradition,59
    and other astral deities, and, at the most auspicious moment and under the
    influence of Yin powers, symbolically kills the enemy general and forces his qi
    to dissipate. This cannot just be interpreted as natural magic leading toward
    science, but must be analyzed within the context of traditional Chinese religious
    and ritual beliefs and practices of exorcism, a burgeoning field of inquiry.60 The
    late Ming general was, in fact, a powerful exorcist. We must analyze the actions
    of traditional Chinese armies and the symbolic meanings that they gave to their
    equipment if we are to understand what they thought that they were doing on the
    battlefield and on parade.

    ~Robin D.S. Yates: The History of Military Divination in China
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    Ming Army magic...
    he was a table top general. he wrote about catapults and armored knights at a time when each ming battalion carried one million tons of bullets and powder.. the books written by generals who won battles all talked about banning superstition.
    Last edited by bawang; 01-05-2015 at 08:05 AM.

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  6. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    he was a table top general. he wrote about catapults and armored knights at a time when each ming battalion carried one million tons of bullets and powder.. the books written by generals who won battles all talked about banning superstition.
    That's what one would expect, really, not unlike the situation today. (The writer does credit Mao Yuanyi with extensive field experience, however.)

    I was reading a study on Song Dynasty rituals the other day, (I'm sure you've seen all the original texts,) a good portion of the military manuals of the time were devoted to divination, astrology, ritual, but one general made it a point to caution that it was more important to pay attention to what was happening on the earth, than to worry about the heavens. I would venture a guess that he may have had more "real" experience than others. His manual was reprinted in the Qing, but without his skeptical comments.
    Last edited by Kellen Bassette; 01-05-2015 at 10:18 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  7. #142
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    The Song dynasty in the end fell utterly to the Mongols (highly realistic when it came to kicking ass).
    So, they done messed up.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  8. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    The Song dynasty in the end fell utterly to the Mongols (highly realistic when it came to kicking ass).
    So, they done messed up.
    They were so divided, they invited the Mongols in! NOT SMART
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    They were so divided, they invited the Mongols in! NOT SMART
    They forgot the purpose of the wall.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  10. #145
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    The purpose?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    They forgot the purpose of the wall.
    World's biggest tourist attraction?


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  11. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    The Song dynasty in the end fell utterly to the Mongols (highly realistic when it came to kicking ass).
    So, they done messed up.
    True, but it took a few centuries. Imagine how much we could screw up in that amount of time. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    [...] it talks about wu song come down from heaven and killing demons who are attacking his mother. at the end of the fist poem its clear wu song symbolizes you and his mother is the chinese people.
    Inspirational.

    Let's see the text.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    Inspirational.

    Let's see the text.
    theres an original standard longfist poem then a later one that combines all the moves into a story, then a later sanitized one that reverts back to original style after rebellion failed, something about wusong smashing up a lot of mountains and his mother trapped in a mountain. i saw it in amateur meihuaquan documentary on chinese youtube

    like for the move chengxiang split mountain save mother, its wusong split mountain save mother, blowing up ten thousand demons and fairies to smithereens, iron fist punch tai mountain calms world or something
    Last edited by bawang; 01-05-2015 at 08:08 PM.

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  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    theres an original standard longfist poem then a later one that combines all the moves into a story, then a later sanitized one that reverts back to original style after rebellion failed, something about wusong smashing up a lot of mountains and his mother trapped in a mountain. i saw it in amateur meihuaquan documentary on chinese youtube

    like for the move chengxiang split mountain save mother, its wusong split mountain save mother, blowing up ten thousand demons and fairies to smithereens, iron fist punch tai mountain calms world or something
    Cool.

    Got a link to the vid?

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    Cool.

    Got a link to the vid?
    it was on tudou and they dont let u watch outside china anymore. it was one of those amateur self made chiense hillbilly documentary/advertisement with the cheesy voice

    these days meihuaquan guys are pretty open and smug about it, they even showed white lotus member list on another cctv doc. hong quan guys are still secretive tho
    Last edited by bawang; 01-08-2015 at 08:56 AM.

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