The Boxer Rebellion

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Ben Gash
Oh dear Where do we start?
OK, as I have already stated on another thread (and admittedly has been more than hinted at here) the boxers (on the whole) were not martial artists. They were what are known as "spirit boxers", who believed that they were possessed by totem spirits, and this would make them impervious to gunfire.

That's what I'd understood as well. Which is why I said that the rebellion was less about a martial arts style than about controlling a populace.

Second, why are the Brits getting bashed here? The British empire didn't rule china, it ruled Hong Kong (which was nowhere near the rebellion).Yes, the opium wars were a dark stain on our history, but was it really any worse than enslaving people in their thousands and forcing them to build a railway in concentration camp conditions? (pot/kettle). The USA, Portugal and Germany were all caught up in the boxer rebellion.
As for the Empire, yes there were bad things about it, but there were good things as well. I mean, India and Hong Kong were both under such liberal, tolerant, politically free regimes beforehand. Also, incidentally, they were ruled by a non-indigenous ruling class who had empires themselves.
Yes, Mel Gibson does appear to hate the English. Try reading a history book instead. William Wallace was a decidedly wealthy landowner who didn't like paying tax, and the average Scottish peasant was no worse off than the average English peasant (except that the English peasant had to worry about being massacred by the Scots)

Well, personally, I said that there wasn't much to recommend Britain's behavior in India and China. The fact that other groups have done similar things doesn't really change that.

That said, I think it's pretty obvious that I'm not bashing Great Britain. I'm proud of what little British I can still claim.


Stuart B.

[Dim Wit Mak]

It's hard for me to believe that there wasn't a concerted effort to teach some rudimentary kung fu to the "Boxers". I have seen old film clips of these guys practicing with swords, and doing what are obvious kung fu movements. I'm not saying they were dedicated martial artists, but they were called "Boxers" by the Europeans, because they observed these movements and the "White Devils" didn't have any idea what "kung fu" was. Of course, there was a lot of magic and superstition connected with it, but I really believe, that simple kung fu was taught on a rather large scale. I don't want to be obstinate, but the finger seems to point in that direction.

It would be interesting to get ahold of some primary sources, i.e. letters or telegrams written by the beseiged foreigners and read their first hand accounts. Amid the accounts of horror, there has to be attempted descriptions of how they fought. At any rate, since that is the limit of my knowledge, I'll just put my comments to rest with this post.

[apoweyn]

I don't think anybody is disputing that they were taught some basic martial arts. I think the point that people are trying to make is that those martial arts were a fairly minor variable amid many other variables (nationalism, lack of education, manipulation of the masses, faith, etc.).

As for specific styles, I'd guess that people learned whatever was readily available to them. And that there wasn't one specific Boxer Rebellion style. (And frankly, would you really want to learn it if there were? They got gunned down. And guns have gotten more advanced since then. Not less so.)

Edit: The above was somewhat tongue in cheek. Firearms will ruin anybody's day. Style be ****ed.

Edit again: Style be gosh darned.

All that said, I seem to recall something about hung gar and about their characteristic hand formation (the kiu sau or something) being used as a "secret handshake" to other society members or something like that. But be careful. That could just be over-romanticized (or misremembered) rubbish. I'm not historian enough to know for sure.


Stuart B.

[kungfu cowboy]

Secret handshakes allow the "secret palm tickle" which is just a socially acceptable form of asking "Are you into manlove?"

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by kungfu cowboy
Secret handshakes allow the "secret palm tickle" which is just a socially acceptable form of asking "Are you into manlove?"

Kungfu Cowboy sounds like he's been in a college fraternity or three.

[red5angel]

I think KFcowboy is just finally coming out of the closet.

[kungfu cowboy]

LOL, MK!

R5A, that's just wishful thinking!

[red5angel]

well if you look anything like your avatar pretty boy

[Shaolinlueb]

wait, didnt the boxers use cannons and guns? i swear i saw pcitures of the with cannon's strolling through the mud. i dont know about the guns though.

[FIRE HAWK]

Iron Ox Southern Mantis was used in the Boxer Rebelion it was taught to the Boxers by the founder of Iron Ox Southern Mantis Choi Dit Ngau or Iron Ox Choi , Iron Ox Southern Mantis is the fourth version of Southern Mantis and is a Hakka art .

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
wait, didnt the boxers use cannons and guns? i swear i saw pcitures of the with cannon's strolling through the mud. i dont know about the guns though.

Perhaps. But "CannonerRebellion" is too hard to say.

[Shaolindynasty]

The boxer rebellion was the result of several different problems in China. Religion played a part to. Also there was a big drought that was causing allot of people to starve to death and some believed the drought was because of the forgien pressence in China. I read a book called the three keys (I think but i'm to lazy to get up and check). The empress also instigated the boxers. It all came to a head during a battle in 1900 in the forbidden city. It's really interesting really. The book also had some letters from british and americans who witnessed the battles and said it seemed the boxers wouldn't die. One said the boxer kept getting up after getting shot and charging forward. It kinda reminds me of the end to last samurai. Similar situations

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by apoweyn


Yep. I think it had more to do with control than with style.

Stuart B.

so again..just to be clear, what we're really talking about are Iron skills...and I wasn't there but go figure that westerners would say such things about the funny little yellow guys with the funny eyes ( no offence to my asian friends and which just for the record I personally find extremely attractive) fighting in the robes with funny pendants and statues......


didn't alot of those folks flee to the hills and come back to give us our kungfu we have now.....sounds obvious to say, but just want to make sure we're on the same page

how is that a loss....the culture lives on and check shaolin out for comeback of the millenium!! The abbot is doing, has done and will continue to put in big time to weed out western influences (which I believe the temple accepted with this exact senario in mind once the dust settled and lives were no longer in danger) and bring shaolin back to its tradition roots. ..and the guy is that amiable that he even plans to offer westerners official first time in history opportunity to indocrinate and join the temple.....just so there's no hard feelings....can't arguewith that logic

( but I'm pretty sure someone here'll try

[apoweyn]

so again..just to be clear, what we're really talking about are Iron skills...and I wasn't there but go figure that westerners would say such things about the funny little yellow guys with the funny eyes ( no offence to my asian friends and which just for the record I personally find extremely attractive) fighting in the robes with funny pendants and statues......


didn't alot of those folks flee to the hills and come back to give us our kungfu we have now.....sounds obvious to say, but just want to make sure we're on the same page

We are so not on the same page. What are you talking about? Iron skills? Westerners talking about funny little Asian guys? Gah?!

You quoted my comment on control. I'm referring to the control by Chinese rebels on Chinese rebels. The higher ups convincing the lower downs that they were protected from foreign gunfire.


Stuart B.

[Vash]

All of a sudden, I'm reminded of the thread about the guy who dropped like four hits of acid.