the BEST wooden dummy video EVER!!

[Vyvial]

trust me...

wooden dummy video

[old jong]

Are you serious?...

[Vyvial]

I bet you can't do it that fast!!!

I can't either but I can bang on it much harder though....

[Nick Forrer]

I go for precision and correct body mechanics when doing the jong- not speed. IMO doing it fast is point missing if you arent clear about your reasons for doing it.

I notice that one of the reasons he can do it so fast is because there is a disconnection between his body and his arms i.e. his arms are moving a lot quicker then his body. One of the ideas behind the jong is to practice moving the body as one unit and to use the waist as the motor and not the arm.

[Ultimatewingchun]

To quote a famous man we all know and love...

"Boards...don't hit back!"

[lawrenceofidaho]

Sifu Norbert is a big & strong guy, so he doesn't necessarily have to throw his body into every motion to achieve a reasonable level of power (at least not motion that's easily visible to the eye).


The bigger WT "masters" (Norbert, Gutierrez, Boztepe, etc. who are natural heavyweights) will sometimes execute techniques in ways that smaller WT "masters" cannot (and probably never try.)


When I watch the video, and imagine the dummy arms to be the arms of an opponent that Norbert outweighs by more than 20 pounds, I can see those techniques being effective (because they are quick and explosive). -If he was working with someone his own size or larger, he would probably not bother trying to move that way, and just fire "big artillery".


"One of the ideas behind the jong is to practice moving the body as one unit and to use the waist as the motor and not the arm."


-I'm sure he practices that way sometimes as well.......


The higher level WT guys train on the dummy using a variety of different rythms, "feels", and concepts. You could watch several different practice sessions, and they would each look quite different depending on what principles and "attributes" (Hi Ernie! ) they are wanting to emphasize on that day.


-Lawrence

[sihing]

What's Sifu Nobert's stats(Height, Weight, etc)? Anyone know what Boztepe's stats are?

[Vyvial]

this Norbert guy has to be bigger than Emin, he's a monster! Like a hairy Shrek destroying the wooden dummy, in a good way.

"boards don't hit back huh?" --- I don't know who came up with that BS but I can tell you, and probably Norbert as well, when you're really going at it and banging on the dummy as hard as you can when those arms break!!!! You better watch out! One time when I was doing a pretty heavy set I snapped the arm off and it bounced back and hit me in the face, i don't think I have ever been hit in the face like that before, it almost bruised.
Yeah!

[Vyvial]

Originally posted by lawrenceofidaho
Sifu Norbert is a big & strong guy... I can see those techniques being effective (because they are quick and explosive). -Lawrence

Very interesting take on WT. I always thought that the WT base
Principles of Force was:


1. Free yourself from your own force.
You must learn to relax and not rely on brute strength to defeat the enemy, because there's always someone stronger than you who will defeat you in a contest of strength.

2. Free yourself from your opponent's force.
You must learn to give way to the enemy's force in a controlled and purposeful fashion rather than struggle against it.

3. Use your opponent's force against him.
You must learn to harness the enemy's force in order to use it against him.

4. Add your own force to the force of the opponent.
You must learn to use your own force so that it augments the force of the enemy which is being used against him.

Isn't relying on Speed and strength kinda well... ignoring all that GGGMM LT has passed down?

[lawrenceofidaho]

Vyvial,

1. Free yourself from your own force. You must learn to relax and not rely on brute strength

Norbert is quite relaxed in the video, and I don't recall any use of "brute" strength executed on the dummy by him. (If you disagree, could you be more specific about which techniques you believe he is "muscling" so I can look more closely at them in the video?)


2. Free yourself from your opponent's force. You must learn to give way to the enemy's force in a controlled and purposeful fashion rather than struggle against it.

I qualified my earlier comments by suggesting that this is how Norbert would likely engage a smaller opponent (because with his speed and explosive power, there would be no struggle.) -Also, because he is relaxed, he would not be wrestling his opponent's arms in a way that would allow him to be easily exploited the way someone with tense/rigid arms would.


3. Use your opponent's force against him. You must learn to harness the enemy's force in order to use it against him

Notice that Norbert is cutting angles and playing off of the recoil of the jong, -not just smashing into it like an American football blocking dummy.......


4. Add your own force to the force of the opponent.

It should be very clear that Norbert is adding his own force here.


Isn't relying on Speed and strength kinda well... ignoring all that GGGMM LT has passed down?

GGGGM LT uses strength and speed too.......(How could anyone ever win a fight without some of each?) We just need to differentiate between the two aspects of it; raw ability (attributes), and also, how those attributes are channeled (structure / technique).

If someone has natural strength and speed, -good for them, but if they do not employ it with; skill, intelligence, and savvy (which I feel it is likely that Sifu Norbert probably does), then of course, they can be beaten by a slower and weaker opponent who has better skill in applying those attributes.


I agree with all the principles you stated, I just don't feel that Norbert has violated any of them.

[old jong]

Like Nick said!...I see no connection between his arms and body structure.Whatever he is big and strong and can hit hard this way,it is not good Wing Chun technique.
BTW,I can do it wrong fast also!...

[lawrenceofidaho]

You don't need to muster the same amount of power to make an eye jab functional, as you do to take someone out with a nine foot pole, right? Why not make the body mechanics appropriate to the goal you are trying to accomplish?

In my opinion, trying to put the maximum amount of power possible into EVERY technique is not always the best way to approach combat. Certain techniques executed in certain situations don't NEED to have the body fully behind them to be effective.

If Norbert unleashed a flurry like that on on a wing chun "fundamentalist" (who was using "correct" technique) and beat the guy into the ground, why would you call what he is doing "wrong"? -He did what it took to be effective. He made it as simple as possible and still got the job done. He doesn't need the overkill of power which would slow him down. Why pour on more than is necessary? (Simplicity is also an important wing chun principle, right?)

-Lawrence

[old jong]

You could also hit him in the face with a shovel,using very little power and be effective.
The question is: Do you practice Wing Chun or something else?...It is nice to be able to imitate Jackie Chan on the dummy but it is not what Wing Chun is about. (IMHO anyway)

[Vajramusti]

Old Jong asks-
The question is: Do you practice Wing Chun or something else?...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

That question can be asked fairly frequently.....at the kfo.
mad hatter's tea party. Some coversations rival that of Alice in Wonderland.:-

[Vajramusti]

Old Jong asks-
The question is: Do you practice Wing Chun or something else?...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

That question can be asked fairly frequently.....at the kfo.
mad hatter's tea party. Some coversations rival that of Alice in Wonderland.:-