San Shou rules TBA....WTF????

[Fu-Pow]

Hey guys,

Question for you.

I was planning on competing in San Shou in a certain upcoming tournament.

The dude running the tournament did not include the sparring and San Shou rules with the registration.

So then I call their info line and get this total a-hole who I ask about the sparring rules.

He says "They will be announced at the tournament." WTF is that?

How are you supposed to know what gear you should have and/or what to train for?

I ask him "Well, tell me roughly, are you guys going to follow the rules of a particular governing San Shou organization?"

Same stock answer "They will be announced at the tournament."
(I don't think this guy had a brain cell in his head!)

Would you guys even bother to compete in something where the rules are TBA?

What gear would you even bring to an event like that?

Is this totally ridiculous or is it standard practice?

[lkfmdc]

Well, I hate to say "I told you so"

but I TOLD YOU SO

I consistently am amazed that people go to San Shou events run by people who have NO CLUE what they are doing...

Go to the REAL EVENTS done by the real San Shou community, "Born to Fight" and the 2004 World Championships both have complete rules up on the internet for MONTHS before the events. And gosh darn it, they are the correct rules, not some of the crap you see put up (cough *Seattle event * cough)

Problem is, some people want to be the small fish in the small pond. There is some ranting about how wonderful some guys did at a certain southern event, which, GASP, no real San Shou people went to.... nice to talk about being a "national champion" when you don't have to fight the real athletes

[Akhilleus]

There is some ranting about how wonderful some guys did at a certain southern event, which, GASP, no real San Shou people went to.... nice to talk about being a "national champion" when you don't have to fight the real athletes

Hmm...so those weren't "real san shou people" at the southern event...then what were they, CGI? Were those matches down south scripted or something? Sure not all san shou fighters are at an equal skill level, but they all work hard and are the "real deal" and "real athletes".

[lkfmdc]

this event has consistently featured guys who are basicly point fighters, guys from traditional kung fu (read FORMS SCHOOLS) who do a little sparring. Or at the level, at best, of "tough man" fighting... So they fight in their back yard and then carry on about how they are champions....

Call it whatever you want, San Shou, San Da, Chinese martial arts style fighting, but if you want to call yourself a "national champion" its extremely funny (and pathetic) that you "win" that "title" without having to face the top CHinese style fighters in the nation.

I'd love to see the winner of that 154 lb division against Mike Norman, Max Chen or Rich Acosta...

How about the 143 lb winner vs. ALbert Pope, Jose Palacious or Ian Morgan?

Their 165 lb "national champion" vs Josh Beauregard or Kevin Rueles?

Their 185 lb so called "champion" against Brian Madigan?

The very evident reality is that it's 100% bogus to talk about how "bad ass" you are and call yourself a "national champion" when you've never faced anyone of the level of the above mentioned guys....

[Akhilleus]

The very evident reality is that it's 100% bogus to talk about how "bad ass" you are and call yourself a "national champion" when you've never faced anyone of the level of the above mentioned guys....

Agreed, but sometimes its not the fighter calling themself that, but the tournament promoters...I've won certain "titles" that I don't feel comfortable accepting at this point so I don't call myself that, and I have faced people the level of the above mentioned guys, EDIT: In fact I faced one of the above mentioned guys in my first san shou tourney...so bash the promoters if you will, but why the fighters?

[Ray Pina]

Fu-Pow, bring everything (head gear, gloves, shin pads, instep pads, and even elbow pads and chest gear) just to be covered.

I wont be around to fight in the next San Da event and will fight in the Won Fe Hung. I just checked their rules and they're a little disapointing but at least it will be stress free and I can chill out and surf the rest of the summer.

LKFMDC, when is the next San Da matchup after the one this Sept? I'm definitely interested in getting back into the ring. Just doing some traveling in Sept./Oct. but want to take a serious run at San Da at the end of this year and all next year.

By the way, you guys run a great show. That's the way it should be done.

[lkfmdc]

ah, but you see, I see the participants, not the promoters, ALL THE TIME "bragging" about their fighting prowess on the internet...

Now, as for the "promoters", let's be blunt, the "Kuoshu Lei Tai" people have been protecting their sport for years now

I tried for three straight years to register my guys to fight in that event. I called, sent emails, wrote letters, I was promised a million times they would send me registration forms and let us compete. Then, of course, they tell you that if you don't pre-register they won't let you fight

Cung Le himself showed up, flew in from CA, and was denied entry because he didn't "pre-register"

So, basicly, they are full of sh iiiiiii tttttt

The SS community has for 10 years said they should put a team of their guys up against our guys, they've evaded so well they must be taking slipping lessons from boxers...

[Tak]

Which southern event would that be, just to be perfectly clear?

[SaekSan]

Their registration forms are online at their website, that's where we get our registration forms and we send them in before the deadline. Every year people are barred from competition because they did not pre-register (one of my fighters sent his in a couple of days late and was barred). Almost every year there's some Brazilian fighter that gets barred because they didn't pre-reg so I don't think them barring you and your crew is something personal. Those are just the rules (pre-register prior to July 15th).

The event runs smoothly because they can predict the amount of participants in the Lei Tai event and can co-ordinate accordingly (because of the pre-reg. cut-off). I think they do a fantastic job considering the amount of fighters in the event. Now, previously you criticized other events because of their lack of organization, I don't beleive you should criticize this event on those grounds.

Our school has been to San Shou events that were run so haphazardly that our guys decided not to participate again (even though they won their fights). Now, the events we attended are like the ones criticized in this thread and probably the ones you go to are of higher quality, however our experience has been always good with the kuoshu events and not so positive at San Shou events.

Personally I would love to see all tournaments being well organized, have the safety of the competitors in mind and being properly refereed. So far the only place we have seen this has been the Kuoshu tournaments.

On the concept of titles I would like to add that these people truly are champions, they are champions of Kuoshu (not San Shou) because they fought by the rules of the tournament and it was open to anyone that was willing to follow those rules. They are National, International or World champions of Kuoshu fighting. Now if they went to a San Shou event and atteined such titles they would be the champions of San Shou (different rules, different equipment and different scoring). The requirement for tournaments is to follow the rules, one of them, in Kuoshu tournaments, is that you must pre-register.

It would be great to see your athletes there, our guys are always looking forward to fighting highly skilled people.

[lkfmdc]

Back when we were trying to get into their events, they did NOT have anything "on line", I don't think they even had a web site.

But let's say a magical web page DID exist back then and I just couldn't find it. You'd think if I CALL YOU three times and each time you promise to mail me the forms, that I'd get them eventually???

Now, from our perspective, that's ducking people, and so when you REFUSE to mail us the stuff and we show up, you look like a moron saying that we can't compete, or a coward.

And AGAIN, when the typical crap surfaces from some of the twinkies, we've asked time and time again if they be interested in a team vs team competition, excuses are like a-holes, we all have them and they are all full of ........

BUt there is no point in a continuing drama, we've been there, done that, and we have the t-shirts

World San Da Championships are ON LINE at either www.uskba.com or www.kingofsandausa.com

[David Jamieson]

san shou in the west is barely out of diapers yet. It is not a good wine like boxing is and it's not even at the level of recognition as UFC or NHB.

But with time, adequte promtion and a proper governing body taht isn't stinking with politics and face games, it might work out.

Heck, there's people who call muay thai "san da and san shou"

which is of course preposterous.

Anyway, call back in 5 years and see if these guys have their poop in a group yet.

Otherwise, there's always a good K1 match up and coming or a UFC if your into that sort of thing. Not to mention Muay thai and good old kickboxing.

[SaekSan]

Yes, in the "back then" time we would request it and it would arrive in the mail but that was the past, I thought you were referring to the "now". Since those are two different areas I guess there is no need to argue then.

So those are the events to check out huh? We'll look into them.

Thank you.

[SanShou Guru]

What event are we talking about in the south?

There was supposed to be a koushu guy in my division at Born to Fight. I guess they were talking crap about cleaning up at SS events in the south. I was looking forward to seeing if the guy could fight and maybe even face him but for some reason he dropped out of the event at the last minute. I still got 2 fight in so it was worth it.

Akhilleus which guys did you fight and when I may have it on tape.

[Akhilleus]

Back when we were trying to get into their events, they did NOT have anything "on line", I don't think they even had a web site.

OK, but do you know what else they "did not have" back then? Anyone that they would have any reason to protect...
i.e. the people running the tournament didn't have any fighters winning the kuoshu tourney...the tournament is run by Grandmaster Huang Chien Liang, who hadn't had a fighter win the kuoshu tourney for quite a while before last year. So who do you think they were protecting and why would they do it? But don't bother, I'm really not interested in this BS...and Saek San handled things well enough...

But let's assume for a moment that the promoters were protecting someone, which they were not...that would still only be the promoters...as for the fighters, plenty of kuoshu fighters seek out the best competition, and fight in san shou tourneys, rather than just trying to find fights that they know they can win...in fact, a kuoshu guy from my school is going to fight in your "World Championship" tournament...but oh wait I'd better pull him out b/c I must protect him...

[Akhilleus]

Akhilleus which guys did you fight and when I may have it on tape

I fought Kevin Ruelas back in November of 2002...I think you did see it...(I sucked back then, not that I'm great now)...

I fought Lee King and Melvin Guillard February 2003, in New Orleans...