Judo vs Tai Chi

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
I know of a high level Judo practitioner who switched to Cheng Man Ching style Taiji, and then went on to win a few golds at a high ranking competition. He said he gave up on his Judo and just used Taiji in his fights but made it look like Judo and he totally sailed all the way to gold positions in his category.

He said after all his years doing Judo he realised that Taiji washed the floor with his opponents.

what it boils down to ( and forgive me for not reading the 70+ posts to date) is that no art is complete. I've seen awesome judo folks playing, I wanna fight or study under and taiji dudes who I'm confident could the as* they needed to.

Remember , behind the art there is the practitoner and behind the practioner is a multitude of vartiants!!!!!!! How do you compare that???!!!

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Pull guard

that may get you slammed... I know what you're getting at though.

[SevenStar]

theoretically, things should be broken before the judo guy touches you, but in actuality, how likely is that to happen and how many are qualified enough to do so?

[ShaolinTiger00]

If any of you are ever in the DC area, I BEG you to please come by and visit me. I would thouroughly enjoy and appreciate a demonstration in tai chi vs. judo.

please!

[SPJ]

A few Qin Na techniques may desolve the Judo grab.

[nairb]

These style vs style threads will be repeating the exact same arguments in the year 2999 as they were in 1999.

Even so, I'm suprised when people try to compare a martial Sport - Judo to what is supposedly a complete martial art like Tai Chi Chuan.

Shouldn't you be comparing the martial art that Kano used to derive Judo? Weren't there schools of the old Samurai combat JuiJitsu still being taught where Kano was a student and then developed Judo as a "safe" sport version for use in phys. ed.?

I'm sure there are historians here that know more than me about this, but I'm positive Judo was never meant to be a combat martial art. In fact the -do ending identifies it as less combat effective than the -jitsu ending.

Now can someone start a thread on Samurai combat JiuJitsu vs. Tai Chi Chuan? Or how about Ken-Jitsu vs. Chinese saber?

[blooming lotus]

again I think we've hit a common note. Once you reach a certain level or attain an amount of your arts' skill, it comes down to the practioner. Judo has awesome grappling style, but I've seen impressive chen masters take down lightening fast , and then chin na / ninjutsu etc have throws and holds of their own....

cheers

Blooming lotus

[nairb]

Another relevant point. The Attacker seems to have a Chinese name!?! Hmmm. Could he have been in Taiwan or Hong Kong or somewhere else not-Japan? Some of which are not exactly hotbeds of the Japanese Martial Arts perfection.

That might also explain conduct that would be unseemly for a Japanese Black Belt. I have the greatest respect for CXW and his style, but this the story does seem a little, ummm, suspect?

Originally posted by YongChun
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezin...hp?article=380

...The attacker, Mr. Lim (Lin Jinping in Pinyin), apologized for the unmannerly interruption, but was nevertheless thankful to have experienced the efficacy and power of taijiquan.

[Doug]

Doesn't it seem, ummm, easy to attack his character?

So you honestly believe that a Japanese martial artist would not/could not/will not ever do something like that? Are you suggesting that Japanese martial artists are above the desire to see if someone is for real (their skills are real)?

It is funny that the only argument that is steady here is the one about whether the attacker was a Japanese judo practitoner. That alone should say something about the context and meaning of the argument. By that thinking, America's armed forces really are the only forces in the world who are concerned for peace, who genuinely seek out "terrorists" who spread "hateful ideology," and who have the right to do as they please without regard to the international community.

Doug M

[Shooter]

If any of you are ever in the DC area, I BEG you to please come by and visit me. I would thouroughly enjoy and appreciate a demonstration in tai chi vs. judo

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...highlight=Judo

[Miles Teg]

"So you honestly believe that a Japanese martial artist would not/could not/will not ever do something like that? Are you suggesting that Japanese martial artists are above the desire to see if someone is for real (their skills are real)?"

Yes, they do it all the time in Pride. Most of the time they do really well although sometimes a good striker who also has good grappling can win. They get fame, money and respect. The Japanese media loves fighter who defeats the foreign warriors. I still cant imagine going to a Taichi seminar in a Chinese speaking country to challenge someone though.

"It is funny that the only argument that is steady here is the one about whether the attacker was a Japanese judo practitoner. "

Agreed. But if I told you that a famous Taichi practitioner challenged a famous Judo guy and lost and then I told you that this well known Tai CHi guy was Japanese what would you think? I know race shouldnt be a factor, but be honest. What would your impression be.

[nairb]

For all I know you guys may be good Martial Artists but didn't seem to do too well in reading class.

I quoted the original article thus:

"Originally posted by YongChun
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezi...php?article=380

...The attacker, Mr. Lim (Lin Jinping in Pinyin), apologized for the unmannerly interruption, but was nevertheless thankful to have experienced the efficacy and power of taijiquan."

And noted that MR. LIM, the ATTACKER, seems to be a Chinese name. I have never heard of a Japanese person named Lin Jinping or Mr. Lim. Have you?

Sometimes it's a good idea to actually read the posts you're responding to.

Originally posted by Miles Teg
"So you honestly believe that a Japanese martial artist would not/could not/will not ever do something like that? Are you suggesting that Japanese martial artists are above the desire to see if someone is for real (their skills are real)?"

Yes, they do it all the time in Pride. Most of the time they do really well although sometimes a good striker who also has good grappling can win. They get fame, money and respect. The Japanese media loves fighter who defeats the foreign warriors. I still cant imagine going to a Taichi seminar in a Chinese speaking country to challenge someone though.

"It is funny that the only argument that is steady here is the one about whether the attacker was a Japanese judo practitoner. "

Agreed. But if I told you that a famous Taichi practitioner challenged a famous Judo guy and lost and then I told you that this well known Tai CHi guy was Japanese what would you think? I know race shouldnt be a factor, but be honest. What would your impression be.

[nairb]

What about the argument that Judo was developed to be a PE class activity - the Japanese version of Dodgeball - while Tai Chi Chuan is supposed to be a complete Martial Art.

So this comparison is apples to oranges.

A better comparison would be the original combat version of Samurai Jiu Jitsu and Tai Chi Chuan or Chinese saber and Ken Jitsu. (see my earlier post)

Ok. I'm finished with this silly thread. Enjoy.

Originally posted by Doug

It is funny that the only argument that is steady here is the one about whether the attacker was a Japanese judo practitoner.

Doug M

[Doug]

Originally posted by Miles Teg
"So you honestly believe that a Japanese martial artist would not/could not/will not ever do something like that? Are you suggesting that Japanese martial artists are above the desire to see if someone is for real (their skills are real)?"

Yes, they do it all the time in Pride. Most of the time they do really well although sometimes a good striker who also has good grappling can win. They get fame, money and respect. The Japanese media loves fighter who defeats the foreign warriors. I still cant imagine going to a Taichi seminar in a Chinese speaking country to challenge someone though.

Miles, I want to be sure I understand you: you believe Japanese martial artists are above human weakness?

"It is funny that the only argument that is steady here is the one about whether the attacker was a Japanese judo practitoner. "

Agreed. But if I told you that a famous Taichi practitioner challenged a famous Judo guy and lost and then I told you that this well known Tai CHi guy was Japanese what would you think? I know race shouldnt be a factor, but be honest. What would your impression be.

I do not mean to be rude, but I already answered this above when you asked me last time.

Doug M

[Doug]

Originally posted by nairb
For all I know you guys may be good Martial Artists but didn't seem to do too well in reading class.

You should not talk since you missed the point of the argument above.

And noted that MR. LIM, the ATTACKER, seems to be a Chinese name. I have never heard of a Japanese person named Lin Jinping or Mr. Lim. Have you?

Have you ever heard of you missing the point of the above argument?

Sometimes it's a good idea to actually read the posts you're responding to.

Sometimes, it is good to make logical arguments, not assumptions. Therefore, you are the primary audience for your own claim here. Look at your initial claim, and think about it. Then, try not to make assumptions.

Doug M