Judo vs Tai Chi

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Doug-
I noticed you are in CA. Are there any schools that teach combat Tai Chi (including groundfighting) in CA?

You can try Tim Cartmell's Shen Wu program.

[One Finger Zen]

nice website there doug, good to see the martial spirit of taijiquan being kept alive and kicking.

Peace, OFZ

[SPJ]

Agreed.

[Doug]

Thanks. I recommend www.swordforum.com as well (the Chinese forum, I mean, but plenty of others are great too).

Scott Rodell wants to have a seminar out here some time. It has not materialized yet, but I hope he travels out here to California. One of the great things about his seminars is that he brings a collection of antique jian and dao for the participants to hold and get a feel for the real weapons. It is pretty unique to have a person who is not only skilled in Tai Chi but also quite knowledgable about the original weapons.

If you want to check out his non-profit organization, go to www.sevenstarstrading.com . The articles are the most beneficial, but he is really a nice person over the phone too--quite approachable.

Doug M

[YongChun]

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezin...hp?article=380

An Intrusion boosts the Tour
Two days later, to cap off the official welcoming, several hundred guests were invited to a banquet to honor the Chinese masters and their entourage. Among the guests were dignitaries from the country's sports organizations, local martial arts masters and aficionados. The dinner went smoothly with the usual long toasts. Just at the close of the dinner, three of the guests approached the elevated platform of the honored guests. They openly asked if what they saw about his martial skills on TV was true. They said that they were longtime judo practitioners and asked if they could test it. Chen Xiaowang, having eaten and drunk heartily, was not inclined to oblige but did not know how to decline. Invoking a well-lined belly as an excuse would be silly. A martial artist should be ever ready. So he beckoned them to come. Two of them proceeded forward and were allowed to do twisted chicken-wing locks on each of his arms behind his back. Without drama, Chen Xiaowang freed his arms. Dismayed and hardly content with this abrupt and anticlimactic end to their challenge, they nevertheless bowed to salute and thank the master. But as Chen Xiaowang turned to return to his table, the third judo person, who was standing by his side, suddenly grabbed Chen Xiaowang's right arm from behind, and tried to execute a judo throw on him. The dignitaries and guests were aghast with their jaws open. In unison they gestured, their eyes glued to the scene. The admonishment they exclaimed seemed stuck in their throats. In a flash, to the great relief of the organizers and guests, the attacker was seen flying and falling several feet away. The anxiety that had built up to a pitch in that brief moment gave way instantly to a thunderous applause of approval and appreciation to witness such a real-life martial feat.

Chen Xiaowang had responded with his natural reaction upon feeling a sharp force tugging to lift him. The sinking of his dantien energy and "kua" broke the attacker's lifting force and at the same time unsettled the attacker's center. Then he issued a fajin with the back of his shoulder, which struck the attacker close behind, sending him reeling to the floor. The adverse publicity would have doomed the tour had the local judo person succeeded in throwing the master. The organizers were thus doubly grateful to Chen Xiaowang for saving the tour and for generating even more media stories. The attacker, Mr. Lim (Lin Jinping in Pinyin), apologized for the unmannerly interruption, but was nevertheless thankful to have experienced the efficacy and power of taijiquan.

[Doug]

Hey, great. This is the one from this magazine that I read. It has been published elsewhere as well.

Doug M

[Miles Teg]

Still a bit weird though.
What language did they communicate in? Which country was this in? WHo were these guys? Their claims that they are long time judo players doesnt fill me with a sense of awe.

This encounter could well be a real event with some thugs showing up to cause trouble but world class Japanese Judo fighters going to another country to seek out a Tai CHi master, that Japanese people would have hardly heard of, and then challenging him after a meal........ I highly doubt it.

Youve got to understand something about the media here in Japan. Tai Chi is not very well known as an effective fighting art. When Japanese want to prove something, you better believe they make a media event out of it. Yoshida the gold medalist judo athlete and several other famous judoka joined the pride ring to prove their skills against Gracie Ju Jutsu and kick boxers and MMA fighters. Yoshida especially has done very well, so far only losing once so far I believe. Yes I have seen some T.V events were Japanese try to show up chinese martial arts in a rather cheap and unfair way. But it has been done on T.V for the Japanese public and with the full consent of the CMA practitioners. Not in another country where the outcome would never reach the Japanese public anyway.

[Doug]

Miles,

You don't have to believe it, but it happened.

Doug M

[Josh Vogel]

Hi,

Doug, I was interested in your comment about some Tai chi having methods of ground fighting. Did you mean like back to the floor kind of ground fighting or did you mean super low stances, controlling someone on the ground?

Either way, do you know any specifics as to the training methods used? Like push hands on the ground with lots of Chin na?

I've not heard of this before (which isn't saying much, since I'm far from seasoned in the martial arts) and was curious about it.

Thanks for your time,
Josh

[Doug]

Hey Josh,

As I understand it, I refer to both methods of ground fighting/killing. As I have experienced it, you are right about low stances and applications at ground level; you can find that in other martial styles, such as Hung Gar and CHoy Li Fut as well. I believe ground fighting while actually on the ground would involve a lot of fajing. I am not an expert, and many other people here can provide better answers. But like many of the unusual weapons in Chen Village that no one hears about, I suspect that much in terms of what Chen Style Tai Chi can do is unknown to many martial artists who think of Tai Chi as an old ****'s art.

Doug M

[Josh Vogel]

Hi,

Thanks for the Reply, Doug. I thought it might work along those lines (i.e low stance training, etc...). I've met some Chen guys who were pretty **** good and could beat the hell out of me, so I don't think that I would call it an old mans art...(or whatever they edited from your post)

Regards,
Josh

[Doug]

I called it an old F-A-R-T's (F A R T's) art. I can't believe that was edited. Who is behind the censorship of this discussion board--some right-wing wacko? I can't believe it. How stupid. Oh, ecxuse me: how S-T-U-P-I-D/stewped/stupied/steupid. Censor that! I don't know when people will learn that there are no bad words but the ones repressive groups claim to be "bad." It has nothing to do with protecting young minds but controlling them. Arg.

Doug M!

[Miles Teg]

Oh, I believed it happened with someone. But Id bet gold that they werent world class Judo athletes.

What would you say to me if I said my Judo teacher beat up a famous Tai Chi guy who rushed him at a seminar? Doesnt hold much weight does it?

The first question you would ask is WHO is this famous Tai Chi guy. To which I would I would say I dont know exactly but he is a world class Tai CHi teacher. To which you would instantly discard the story as having no value at all.

[Doug]

Miles,

First, I would say not to assume how I would respond to such a question.

Next, I will say that people are people and anything can happen when people are involved: we are complex beings who, in the course of complicated, unspoken, chaotic thoughts,do things that are unexpected. Anything can happen to anyone, regardless of martial discipline.

Doug M

[Miles Teg]

OK fair enough!

By the way if I had the choice I would study Chen Tai CHi over Judo. Its not like Im this big fan of Judo or anything.