"Phoenix Eye Fist" in Xingyi

[blackmantis]

Hey everyone,

My Xingyi school has recently changed most of our punching techniques to be done with a Phoenix Eye Fist. I have been told a few conditioning exercises for this fist formation but would like to know more, so...

Does anyone else use Phoenix Eye Fist in Xingyi?
Does anyone know any good conditioning exercises for this fist?

Many thanks,

S

[cerebus]

Hmmm. We don't do any conditioning for it. We just make that we use it against soft targets like the throat, eyes, solar plexus, etc.

[sean_stonehart]

When I learned Xingyi, we stuck the index finger out a little, but not a full on Phoenix eye like Bak Mei or SPM uses.

[bodhitree]

we do phoenix eye in some techniques, rooster and sparrow, we dont do any conditioning. also aimed at soft targets!

[Brad]

ditto

[XingYiDao]

we do it its part of the tien gunn but when we apply the stuff we often do it

[Felipe Bido]

Same here. We use it against soft targets. In our Zuan Quan, the index sticks out to hit the neck. In the snake form, the knuckle of the middle finger sticks out.

[CD Lee]

Yep, soft targets only, and not really any conditioning, although I will push and hit my palm against it every so ofter during they day, to make sure I keep it tight enough not to jam it. It felt very weak at first.

Needless to say, if you were to strike a hard body part with it, you would probably damage your finger pretty badly. Opening move of Pi with the 'eye' up into the neck, or under the jaw, in the mastoid area, bicept and armpit areas, would be likely targets.

Can be used to rake up and down on the ribs as well from many forms of front grasping moves.

[Apostol]

Yeah, we use phoenix eye for everything. Try hitting yourself with a phoenix eye, it hurts like heck (your body, not your finger).

[SPJ]

Soft spots may include acupuncture points or pressure points. That would produce numbness and even fatal to the opponent.

Watch the positioning of your wrist, you may damage your wrist easily, if not done the right way.

Shan Xi Pai stresses the surface formed by your thumb and index finger remains flat and stays on the same Line with the forearm. No bending wrist upward but stays flat.

[count]

ok, here's another take on the eye of the pheonix. It is useful to direct energy through the index finger in beng chuan since it is related to the liver or wood. However, the eye is not the knuckle, it is on the side of the hand where the index finger curls under and the thumb meet. This knuckle is actually not intended as the striking part at all. Why would you try and hit a small target with a small surface when you can blast away with the whole fist? If you can hit a moving target with that kind of acuracy, more power to ya, but even with perfect percision a single knuckle is not the most powerful weapon on the body.

Flame on

[Tak]

A student of physics might answer that an amount of force applied over a smaller area has more effect. OTOH, it also has more effect on your finger.

[CD Lee]

No flame needed Count. However a nice little discussion is in order. Hehe.

So, what you say makes perfect sence physics wise. My question would be then, why form the Phoenix Eye at all using Beng based on what you say. In fact, I don't practice it with Beng, but instead use the entire front of the fist as a full surface impact. However, for those the do use the eye for the strike, what is the purpose of the extended knuckle if not for making a very painful and penetrating contact point? Or are you saying only in Beng, the eye is useful only as a director of energy, and in other elements such as Pi, is useful by virtue of the protruding sharp knuckle?

[Felipe Bido]

An addition:

The Phoenix eye fist in Xingyi usually sticks out a split second before the fist is totally planted on the surface of the opponent's body, when the energy is almost leaving the hand. It's like a bed of nails with a nail longer than the others. That one will pierce you much more.-

[count]

Originally posted by CD Lee

why form the Phoenix Eye at all using Beng based on what you say. In fact, I don't practice it with Beng, but instead use the entire front of the fist as a full surface impact. However, for those the do use the eye for the strike, what is the purpose of the extended knuckle if not for making a very painful and penetrating contact point? Or are you saying only in Beng, the eye is useful only as a director of energy, and in other elements such as Pi, is useful by virtue of the protruding sharp knuckle?

Beng is hsing-i's wood element. The connecting organ, liver, passes the front finger according to TCM. Beng chuan power comes right from the liver area. I have much less experience with hsing-i, but in bagua, I notice the energetic quality of the technique is increased by rotating the focus around the specific finger.

As far as force applied over a smaller area, I agree it hurts like a mother, but I challange the accuracy involved with hitting a moving target.