Who created Wu Bu Chuan?

[GLW]

Now don't put FULL sentences in my mouth....

In learning from one Taiwanese instructor who was in the Han Chingtan lineage, there were several basic line drills.

One was simple block Gong bu punch...

The third was the Chaquan Wulu Tan Tui (#5 Tan Tui).

The second, however, was starting from feet together and fists at the waist, step to the left into Gong bu, block left hand punch right fist. This was then followed by kick right foot punch left hand. Then stepping down with the right foot, turn 90 degrees while blocking with the left hand and punching right hand while sitting in Ma bu.

This basic was then repeated turning to the right and doing it alternating sides. (we used to simply call it Block Punch, Kick Punch, Ma Bu Punch...and I learned that before I even heard of Tan Tui).

Since the Taiwanese teacher had only the lineage for northern that goes back to Han Chingtan...and Han Chingtan was, according to the information I was given, trained at Nanjing, that is the connection...

BUT...those moves are the exact first half of Wubuquan....so I am not surprised if there is a very solid background to traditional.

It strikes me more like someone took a piece of a training basic that was widely used in many places and schools....and then another piece from say Chaquan...and then worked out how to glue them together.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by GLW
The second, however, was starting from feet together and fists at the waist, step to the left into Gong bu, block left hand punch right fist. This was then followed by kick right foot punch left hand. Then stepping down with the right foot, turn 90 degrees while blocking with the left hand and punching right hand while sitting in Ma bu.

This basic was then repeated turning to the right and doing it alternating sides. (we used to simply call it Block Punch, Kick Punch, Ma Bu Punch...and I learned that before I even heard of Tan Tui).

We do this sequence, but punch forward instead of to the side (like wubu chuan) We call it "bow stance variations."

[GeneChing]

Fair enough - I was just hoping you had a piece of the puzzle. Given that Wubu is really only a few stances, at least the universal core is only the five, half probably doesn't count. There's bouind to be parallels in any long fist style for so few movements. I'd be more intersted if someone had almost all of it embedded in a traditional form.

[GLW]

Well, from what I have seen, the part I described is one unit.

From the thread palm up to Duli, down to Pu bu and then up to Gong bu and finally to empty stance is a combination I have seen in several northern styles...

About the only part that was new was the cover and step into cross stance sitting and then the puch upward...

That is the part that seems to me like some said "Hey, you know if we connect this basic with this Thread palm basic and use this cross legged sitting stance it will flow and train the major stances...."

Oh...to have been a fly on the wall....

[Royal Dragon]

The interesting thing about Wu Bu Chuan, is it's pretty much a universal set that can be used by all styles of Kung Fu to train the core stances. It's not nessasarily part of a specific system now. It has a life all it's own.

[Brad]

I saw a part of wubu quan incorperated into a "wudang taijiquan" routine... it was umm... interesting There was also a very slow wheeling arms so I'm a tad bit skeptical of its wudang origins

[GeneChing]

Did that Wudang group claim wubu as originating from them? I've heard a Shaolin monk once claim wubu as a Shaolin origin, but that particular monk didn't really know what he was talking about (he had great kung fu, but wasn't really up on history). I've haven't heard anyone really 'lay claim' to originating wubu except for the wushu people. And ironically, it's not what most would consider as 'wushu'. As RD says, it works for almost any style (although I'd qualify that a bit and say it works mostly for longfist - imagine some Wing Chun guys doing wubu just brings a smile to my face )

[r.(shaolin)]

I've never heard of this form. Is there a quicktime movie up on anyones site? Basic forms in the tradition I practice have names like "Ji Ben Dong Zuo" (basic movements) and "Lohan Kai Men" (Lohan Opens the Door) etc.

r.

[GLW]

try

http://www.wushucentral.com/videos/

and then do a search for

wu bu quan

There is an MPG file of the standardized version (having the punch to the side with an upper grab in Ma bu instead of the Ma Bu block and punch that was an older version...)

[Starchaser107]

it's not there,
but I think they recently took alot of thier videos down to update thier server or something , and all of them might not be back up as yet.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by r.(shaolin)
I've never heard of this form. Is there a quicktime movie up on anyones site? Basic forms in the tradition I practice have names like "Ji Ben Dong Zuo" (basic movements) and "Lohan Kai Men" (Lohan Opens the Door) etc.

r.

http://www.geocities.com/wushugungfu/wubuchuan.html

[oasis]

the video for wu bu quan is still up on wushucentral; it's just been placed in the miscellaneous beginner's section.

download

[r.(shaolin)]

In my opinion this is a modern set probably developed during the 1950's. I agree with GLW the author of this standardized exercise was most likely a committee.
The techniques, steps, and the five combinations are all found in traditional Shaolin's long fist forms. Overall this set seems to be someone's idea for basics techniques and basic combinations as typical of northern styles including northern Shaolin. Wu bu quan actual is not a set but one of the number of "combination excersis" developed in the 50's as a way of standarding long fist "combination basics".
Unlike earlier modernist ideas about standarzation of traditional martial arts during the 20's and 30's the over riding criteria for these excersis was not combat effectiveness but rather estetics.
This had a decided effect on the details of techniques, transitions and set design. Overall Wu Bu's structure is not typical of traditional Shaolin sets.
r.

[Royal Dragon]

Overall Wu Bu's structure is not typical of traditional Shaolin sets.

Do you mean "Body Structure?" or the order in which it is coreagraphed?

To me, up to the "Horse & Punch" it looks pretty common.

[r.(shaolin)]

I agree "Horse & Punch" is pretty common, as are the other 4 combinations, in long fist sets. I was refering to the overall set. Generally
traditional sets mirror how fights were measured in the old days by 'exchange of blows'.

r.
My guess is I don't think you will find Wu Bu being done before the 1950's.