Who created Wu Bu Chuan?

[sha0lin1]

This is a good question that I have been wondering about for a long time. Thanks for reviving this thread. I must admit though that I have been somewhat lazy on this one since I only read the first page of responses then skipped to the last. I will go back and read the others when I get more time.

The other thing I am wondering about is the Shaolin form Lian Huan Quan. Since this form opens up similar to Wu Bu in the begining with the punch, kick punch, and ma bu punch. To me Wu Bu feels modern whereas Lian Huan feels more traditional.

My two cents, we teach Wu Bu at our school with an emphasis on the 5 stances and moving in and out of them, once the form is learned the student is given time to develop flow and speed, since the self defense applications are very simple and limited. Which I am pretty sure whoever developed it did it for this reason. Traditional or Modern, it is a great form for this purpose.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Shaolin encyclopedia says the Lian Huan and a variation set called Lian Hua Quan were developed in close late Qing or early modern times and is based on five Shaolin sets" Luohan, Plumflower, Hong Quan, and forget the other two.

Wu Bu Quan is actually a modern Wu shu set that Shaolin has adopted in modern times to use as a base to get beginners started with long fist stances.
It's a great beginner set, so why not. Better than starting with Tan Tui first.

[Royal Dragon]

Yes, but who actually created it? is it a Cha fist drill? was it developed by some committee? if so, which one?

I teach this one, I'd like to be able to say where it came from.

[LFJ]

dont have a name for you but just read the discussion about wubuquan not having many variations to it. the way we do it is not with mabu into gongbu as the first move, but duli into pubu then into gongbu. thats basically the only difference. but i've seen a few other people do it like this as well. i guess the variations really arent many.

[Royal Dragon]

I don't have the Chinese names, but mine does the opening same as all the others, then you lift the left leg up, and the left arm is in a guard over it so the elbow almost touches the knee. This is followed by dropping into a Snake stance similar to Snake creeps down in Taiji, only the rear arm is tucked at the rt side in a chamber position and the left arm chops downwards. Then that is followed by shifting forward into a bowstance and punch.

Most of the ones on line skip those first two moves, and go direct to the left bow stance, punch posture.

I do a second version where I replaced a bunch of the postures with whatever was the closest equivalent from my Tai tzu sets, but I am the only one who does that.

[LFJ]

if i understand your description correctly yours sounds the same. you can see it being performed in this documentary at about 6:50 with shi deyang's class. http://youtube.com/watch?v=U11Cph-lj6Q

its done twice on both sides down and back. left-right, right-left.

[Royal Dragon]

Yes, that is the exact same set I do, only they are ripping through it super fast, and I stop and old each postures for 1 to 3 minutes (depending on how fat and out of shape I am at the time LOL!!)

You don't see that version often, almost every clip of Wu Bu Quan I have seen anywhere skips the first 2 moves. This is one of the only ones I have seen that doesn't, and the is the first one that is exactly like the set i was taught.

[LFJ]

this is how its trained at master deyang's school. of course usually done slower for the beginner to learn properly. where did you learn it?

[Royal Dragon]

I used to train at John Tsai's school in Chicago/Norridge. There was a classmate of mine who had come in from another system named Rob.

When I could not afford classes anymore, he and i would meet at the nearby forest preserve and he would teach me sets and Qi Gongs. I learned Wu Bu Quan, Lianhuanquan, Xiao and Da Hong Quan some Choy Lay Fut Qi gongs and a few other misc. things, a good dozen sets in all before he moved out of state and could not teach me anymore.

None of it was from Tsai's system. He was teaching me what he called "Real Shaolin"

At the time I was just happy to learn, and I really don't remember what his lineage was. It was actually many years later that I discovered all the Qi Gongs (except Ba Duan jin) were from CLF.

When he taught me Wu Bu Quan, he told me it was the original Wu Bu Quan, and not the simple modern version...whatever that meant.

[LFJ]

yeah, whatever that meant. lol

you gotta get back with that guy. that would have been an interesting dig.

[Royal Dragon]

Unfortunately, I have lost contact with him, and don't know where he is anymore.

I originally thought all those sets were some sort of Choy Lay Fut once I figured out the Qi Gongs were, but apparently they were mostly Song Shan Shaolin.

With all te monks around now though, that stuff is much more common today than it was back then (1996?)

I have moved away from form collecting though, and prefer application and usage today.He was a huge forms collector, and must have known a hundred of them. Every 3-4 weeks he would be teaching me a new set, and new Qi Gongs at the same time.

I still do all the marching kicks leg lifts, punching drills and little exercises and certian stretches he taught me in my in warmups today though. I learned a bunch of little generic drills and exercises from him that are still in my tool box as well...I just forgot most of the forms, and what I remember is foggy at best.

We would do all the above, then Wu Bu Quan, Xiao Honh Quan, Da Hoong Quan (the tai tzu one, but I didn't know that then), a Louhan set, and te Cannon Fist form, then we would stretch and play with an application or two, and heavy conditioning at the end and some Qi Gong after

[sha0lin1]

Shaolin encyclopedia says the Lian Huan and a variation set called Lian Hua Quan were developed in close late Qing or early modern times and is based on five Shaolin sets" Luohan, Plumflower, Hong Quan, and forget the other two.

Wu Bu Quan is actually a modern Wu shu set that Shaolin has adopted in modern times to use as a base to get beginners started with long fist stances.
It's a great beginner set, so why not. Better than starting with Tan Tui first.

Thanks Sal.

[Sal Canzonieri]

I don't have the Chinese names, but mine does the opening same as all the others, then you lift the left leg up, and the left arm is in a guard over it so the elbow almost touches the knee. This is followed by dropping into a Snake stance similar to Snake creeps down in Taiji, only the rear arm is tucked at the rt side in a chamber position and the left arm chops downwards. Then that is followed by shifting forward into a bowstance and punch.

Most of the ones on line skip those first two moves, and go direct to the left bow stance, punch posture.

I do a second version where I replaced a bunch of the postures with whatever was the closest equivalent from my Tai tzu sets, but I am the only one who does that.

Your version is the Shaolin version, I learned it that way too.
The other version is the common wushu version.

it was a set created by committee, far as I know. It's just common stuff found in all long fist, hong quan and cha quan. The committee head was a Hua Quan master.

[Royal Dragon]

Hmm, do you know which committee, when it was develped?

I found all but the last 3 moves in Cha Quan number 5 so i think it is derived from Cha Quan mostly.

Part of my questioning is more to try and figure out if it existed prior to modern times as a drill in Cha Quan? Or maybe several Cha Quan drills together?

Did this committee assemble it from previous shorter drills? or just pull sections from Cha forms that fit their needs at random?

[Royal Dragon]

Ok, I have been comparing forms of Cha Fist. It seems that the opening up to the punch kick in Wu bu Quan is in all of them.

The second part from the kick to the twisted (Monkey resting) position is in 5, only it enters the horse by retreating.This has the beginning as does all of them.

Also the end of Wubu Quan is in Cha #5 a bit earlier, only it does not stop at the empty stance and instead continues on to walk to the other side of the floor. You see this in most of them as well.

# 6 has the beginning repeated several times.

Since the core of Wu bu Quan (first 2/3 of it) are in Cha Fist 5, with the next moves and ending being a scaled back or stationary version of another move in Cha #5, I am saying it is a combination of practice drills distilled down from Cha # 5

Cha # 5 First 2/3s 0:34-0:40 The next move is at 0:21, and then the end is the empty stance right as she starts the walking at 0:26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePXnLMbBA7g