Mantis Videos

[18elders]

so was the gong li adapted as a mantis form? the beginning is the same as the long fist version.

[MightyB]

[B.Tunks]

Fresh links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avfkGHxVasU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S47uPcJT9rU

[HmorenoM]

Dai Shizhe
https://www.facebook.com/Along3142/v...c_location=ufi


Wang Zhunren (The title says it's QXTLQ. But it's wrong)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNSzwLn_Nb8


Wutan Martial Arts Developmen Center (around the 70's i think)
http://www.wutangcenter.com/wt/mpg/oldTV.mp4 - direct download

[mooyingmantis]

My student, Tom Pasquale, fighting his way to second place in the intermediate men's division at the Warrior's Hall of Fame Championship in Akron, Ohio on 8/15/2015.

[Oso]

grats on his success. I only watched to see if there was anything remotely NPM or even kung fu. there wasn't. not harshing on your guy or you. but, another bit of proof that there is a disconnection between what is perceived as traditional kung fu and what is needed for the ring. those guys are just slugging it out with the most basic of, well, bad kicking and bad punching. I honestly expected more based on all of your posts over the past years. sadly, this is what is seen at all the semi- and supposed full- contact kung fu events: just really bad brawling.

[mooyingmantis]

grats on his success. I only watched to see if there was anything remotely NPM or even kung fu. there wasn't. not harshing on your guy or you. but, another bit of proof that there is a disconnection between what is perceived as traditional kung fu and what is needed for the ring. those guys are just slugging it out with the most basic of, well, bad kicking and bad punching. I honestly expected more based on all of your posts over the past years. sadly, this is what is seen at all the semi- and supposed full- contact kung fu events: just really bad brawling.

If you don't see traditional mantis theories and combinations in his techniques, I have to wonder what you got out of your mantis training. Have you ever learned the Fanche series or the Zhai Yao series???? The moves aren't quite as pretty in sparring as they are in the forms. Was he suppose to stand in Mantis Catches Cicada between combinations?

One of the comments my student received from one of the Masters in attendance ( a long time mantis practitioner) was that it was clear that he was using mantis theories and techniques in his fighting.

But I recognize that everyone has their own opinion.

[Oso]

what I see are people with little structure or base flailing around...and lots of hand dropping.

[mooyingmantis]

what I see are people with little structure or base flailing around...and lots of hand dropping.

Thank you for your assessment.

[Oso]

You're very welcome.

[sanjuro_ronin]

grats on his success. I only watched to see if there was anything remotely NPM or even kung fu. there wasn't. not harshing on your guy or you. but, another bit of proof that there is a disconnection between what is perceived as traditional kung fu and what is needed for the ring. those guys are just slugging it out with the most basic of, well, bad kicking and bad punching. I honestly expected more based on all of your posts over the past years. sadly, this is what is seen at all the semi- and supposed full- contact kung fu events: just really bad brawling.

Yes, there is a disconnect between TCMA FORMS and real fighting under pressure and that is symptomatic of TCMA as a whole, not just any one system.
The question is WHY?
The answer is, IMO, because NOT ENOUGH hard contact sparring is done, which means what Richard and his students are doing now ( full contact fighting) is the WAY to address this issue.

[Frost]

Yes, there is a disconnect between TCMA FORMS and real fighting under pressure and that is symptomatic of TCMA as a whole, not just any one system.
The question is WHY?
The answer is, IMO, because NOT ENOUGH hard contact sparring is done, which means what Richard and his students are doing now ( full contact fighting) is the WAY to address this issue.

and when that sparring starts to look nothing like the majority of the forms or the theories they are meant to represent, hat should happen then?

[sanjuro_ronin]

and when that sparring starts to look nothing like the majority of the forms or the theories they are meant to represent, hat should happen then?

Not for me to decide BUT based on MY experience the more you pressure test your MA the more your forms look like fighting as opposed to "prancing".
It isn't the theories in TCMA that are bad, I don't recall any that didn't have a solid base in reality, it how they are applied by those with limited or no actual fighting background.
Remember, no MA systems was EVER developed to FIGHT against ITSELF and as such, the theories that make it its heart and soul will simply not work as well ( if at all) against itself.

[Oso]

imo, while the theories are possibly solid here and there I think a lot of the mechanics just don't work.

the fan che mooying refers to will simply not work against an even mediocre boxer.

also, one of the bigger fundamental concepts in tcma is that of 'bridging' and you can't do that with a boxer.

but, the biggest problem is that most tcma people won't step out of their comfort zones and play in another venue.

also, imo/ime...the stupid faceguard headgear required in a lot of kuoshou is just too inhibiting on your vision. it's no wonder some of them look like they do.

so, yes, fighting hard is good...but the venue they are fighting in and the 'judges' valuation of spurious techniques is also a big issue.

I've said before that there has to be a neutral yardstick to measure it all with...the mma venue is a good one. there are no rules against technique...just targets and general types of things like stomping/kicking down on an opponent. the gloves don't inhibit hand movement and there is no vision inhibiting headgear. but, you don't see many tcma people entering those venues much more succeeding.

but...this is a dead horse...just thought I'd check in to see if anything was different...nope. surprised to see you two guys still around. cheers.

[MightyB]

and when that sparring starts to look nothing like the majority of the forms or the theories they are meant to represent, hat should happen then?

IMO I think people try to force the structure of the form or style too early in their MA career. I think that you shouldn't force it, but, as you gain experience in the system - you will start to naturally assume the structure of the system you're studying.

I believe the above happens in phases - and phase 1 usually is just flailing about unless you have some grounding in san shou. Once you get comfortable with the pressure, then phase 2 starts and that's when you start to experiment with the techniques that you find in the forms. Eventually you'll hit phase 3 where those techniques are another option in your bag of tricks and you'll use them naturally.

The final phase is when you embody the style.