Lao Jia vs. Xin Jia Chen styles

[Brad]

I allready asked this on emptyflower.com but figured I'd get some second opinions So, what's the difference between Lao Jia and Xin Jia(if any)? Is it useful to learn both(eventually)?

[SPJ]

Lao Jia has bigger circles.

Xin Jia adds more smaller circles on top of big circles.

Lao Jia was, thus, named Da Chuen Quan (big circle boxing) and Xin Jia was called Xiao Chuen Quan (small circle boxing) by locals at Chen Jia Guo village.

More circles to plenty of circles.

[Christopher M]

Chen You Ben's taiji has been called both Xin Jia and Xiao Jia.

But when westerners say Xin Jia, they tend to mean Chen Fa Ke's taiji. Are you say Fa Ke's style has been called Xiao Jia too?

[Brad]

Just to clarify, I was asking about Chen Fake's Xin Jia

[Christopher M]

Have you checked here and here?

[SPJ]

Cool.

Good links.

[twocircles]

Well, this thread shows just how confusing this subject can be.

I've decided that it's better to use names associated with the forms, Chen Fake form, Chen Zhaopei form, etc.


Richard Johnson

[SPJ]

Good point.

As far as training goes, you start with large circles such as Chen Fa Ke Lao Jia Yi Lu.

This is considered the "basic" or starting point.

Then you practice mid and smaller circles.

The highest level, there is no circles.

Actually, you still practice circular Jin but your movements are not apparent to the opponent's eyes.

Your whole body has circular or Chan Si Jin. (Hwen Sen Si Jin)

So from Da Chuen, Xiao Chuen to Wu Chuen.

A lot of circles.

[twocircles]

Originally posted by SPJ
Good point.

As far as training goes, you start with large circles such as Chen Fa Ke Lao Jia Yi Lu.

This is considered the "basic" or starting point.

Then you practice mid and smaller circles.

The highest level, there is no circles.

Actually, you still practice circular Jin but your movements are not apparent to the opponent's eyes.

Your whole body has circular or Chan Si Jin. (Hwen Sen Si Jin)

So from Da Chuen, Xiao Chuen to Wu Chuen.

A lot of circles.

This is right that you progress from large circles to small circles to no apparent circles. This is the Chen style method of teaching. It is had in common in both large frame (da jia) and small frame (xiao jia) branches. The large circle is used to teach the intricacies of each complete cycle. Once these are learned, practice will begin shrinking the circle, although applications at each size of circle are a little different.

It is a misconception that one needs to start with a large frame style and progress to a small frame style, like Yang to Wu/Hao.

Frame and circle do not mean the same thing, large or small. Circle is literally the size of the circle done in the form. Jia, which is most often translated frame, is a significantly different version of the form.

In Chen Style, there are some differences in the way the qua is used between large and small frames, but there are also signifcant differences in the form. There are relatively minor differences in the way the circle is done.

Regarding Xinjia (new form) and Laojia (old form). In my opinion, this only exists within the four Jingang of the Chen Family. They learned a form from Chen Zhaopei. Later, they learned a form from Chen Zhaokui. The Chen Zhaopei form became the old from that they learned and the Chen Zhaokui form became the new form that they learned. And the rest of us have been confused ever since.

In other parts of China, it was assumed, if Chen Zhaokui taught the new frame, there must be an old frame? The new frame creation has been variously assigned to Chen Zhaokui and Chen Fake. However, students of Chen Fake such as Feng Zhiqiang have maintained that there were no old or new frames that they were all the same. And there is other evidence that Chen Fake never significantly changed his form. Chen Fake taught each student individually and relatively minor differences between his students, primarily variations in emphasis and level, can be accounted for by this individual instruction.

This is probably more than you ever cared to know, but I hope it is helpful. You can see why I say that it is more helpful to say whose form rather than use one of the -jia terms.


Richard Johnson

[GeneChing]