Military XingYi book.

[Apostol]

http://www.rovere.com/books.html

Does anyone have this Hsing Yi book? I just ordered it, I'm wondering if anyone has it. What does the book contain besides the usual stuff? Drills and applications?

Seems like a cool book anyway, 135 pages for $20, that's a steal.

[xingyiman]

I have the book. It contains mediocre pictoral presentations of the five element fists (no applications) , a five element katana that doesn't seem to present much more than how you would intuitively wield a sword without any training, and drawings a figure doing xingyi bayonet routines. Actually his xingyi article on the sight probably covers everything he presents on the xingyi bayonet right there. It is a nice classical reference to have I guess though

[Apostol]

Originally posted by xingyiman
I have the book. It contains mediocre pictoral presentations of the five element fists (no applications) , a five element katana that doesn't seem to present much more than how you would intuitively wield a sword without any training, and drawings a figure doing xingyi bayonet routines. Actually his xingyi article on the sight probably covers everything he presents on the xingyi bayonet right there. It is a nice classical reference to have I guess though

****, so it sucks? What's a good XingYi book anyway? I'm looking mainly for applications and drills, not the forms.

[cerebus]

Hmmm. It's tough 'cause so few Hsing-I books concentrate on applications & drills.

Personally I found "Untraditional Hsing-I" by Robb Whitewood to be interesting and it will probably have some stuff you could use. Don't be fooled by the title. The "untraditional" part is mostly just how he explains the stuff. It looks pretty standard to me.

Also the book "Hsing-I vol.2: Combat" by Tim Tackett has some useful drills, though Tackett's structure looks kinda weak & sloppy to me. This book's outta print, but you can probably find a copy at www.bookfinder.com .

[Hau Tien]

Originally posted by Apostol
****, so it sucks? What's a good XingYi book anyway? I'm looking mainly for applications and drills, not the forms.

I certainly wouldn't say it sucks.

The book is a translation of the xingyi manual by Huang Po-Nien. The main idea of it, I believe, is to provide a reference for those who are training with a teacher/instructing others in xingyi. I wouldn't want to try to learn it from any book.

[Felipe Bido]

Originally posted by Hau Tien
I believe, is to provide a reference for those who are training with a teacher/instructing others in xingyi.

That's the thing with Xingyi manuals of old time. It was supposed that you already had a teacher, and the books were used only as a reference.

The only Xingyi books with great applications I've seen are in chinese. Here's a page from one of them:

[SPJ]

Good posts.

The manual was used as a general reference for training soldiers with no experience.

So it did not cover all or the more advanced subjects.

But it is a classic to have.

[CD Lee]

Even books that have applications in them, have a real hard time explaining or illistrationg how the applicaiton energy really is applied. You see a position, but you are not quite sure exactly how they got in that position for example.

I think for applicaitons, your best bet is a video or DVD. Mike Patterson has a good 5 element video that shows plenty of applicaitons. It is a great reference. You have to go back to it over and over the uderstand the subleties in there. Then after you work for 6 months on some things, you watch again, and see something different.

[Felipe Bido]

Originally posted by CD Lee
You have to go back to it over and over the uderstand the subleties in there. Then after you work for 6 months on some things, you watch again, and see something different.

True. The 'Oooooh' effect in Xingyi never ends

[Apostol]

I got the book today, and man IT ROCKS. The fists are shown so much better than that Robert Smith book I have, and the bayonet routine is just too cool.

[Hau Tien]

Glad to hear you like it! I've found it an extremely good reference... but then, I might be biased

[Hau Tien]

Just got a look at a pre-release copy of Volume II of The Xingyi Quan of the Chinese Army (seen here: http://www.rovere.com/books.html as the last item on the page). If you liked the photos and such in the first book, you're definitely going to like the second book. There's a ton of info packed in there, from what I can see.

I'm excited to see the final, printed version.

[cerebus]

Though I enjoyed the first volume for it's informational content, I was very disappointed to see that they hadn't used the original photos. I really enjoyed the bayonet section however, as it used the original line drawings. If Mr. Rovere ever puts out another edition of the first volume, using the original photos, I'd love to buy a copy.

Glad to see that volume 2 has the old photos. I'm looking forward to checking it out.

[rovere]

To comment since the book is gone to the printers.

Vol.1 We could not find any clean copies of the original photos as they all had hand drawn images (in white dots) superimposed over the photographs in an attempt to show the transitions. I even had Adam Hsu try and contact Huang's son on my behalf to see if we could get more information -- unfortunately, Huang's son had passed away shortly before our book was ready to publish. (By the way, Adam Hsu liked the book and didn't seem 'put off' by the fact we had to repose the photos.) The translation is accurate and the poses are the same as the original -- even though some of my xingyi differs slightly from Huang's (who by the way wasn't in the photos in the original book.)

Volume 2 which is what is currently being discussed takes the line drawings (from Chapter 3 of Huang's book) and breaks them down with modern photos (since there aren't any old photos of this material) showing the single exercises; two-man drills with wooden rifles and the applications in combat. Given the fact my teacher taught xingyi at the Central Military Academy at Nanjing, I feel confident that these photos are appropriate.

Since I have to agree most books don't show 'real' application, the point of these texts are to demonstrate how xingyi is used (which in this case is from a military point of view).

Vol. 2 is approximately 105 pages with 128 photos and 22 line drawings. We also included a section at the end (with old photos - not reposed) of the 5 element spear techniques and accompanying translation. We are also preparing a DVD format instructional disc that follows the exercises in the book so that you can have both detailed explanation and a real-time comparison.

I hope that this helps the discussion.

[cerebus]

Thanks Mr. Rovere. Looking forward to checking it out!