Question about Yang Shao Hou's Tai Chi

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

i showed the videoes of the Imperial yang taiji to two of my teachers. the chinese instructor told me that when imperial yang came out into the public eye it shocked the taiji community.

as for my other teacher- we talked about why yang lu chan may have changed his form from chen to whatever- he mentioned that there possibly was some wudang influence. he mentioned that yang lu chan had changed the form 5 times before going to beijing. after beijing he learned of the "classics" from wu yeuh xiang two years later.

he mentioned that there is a good book called "Tai chi ancestors" to read that has good info.

[Buddy]

"i learned that form yang jwing ming...i guess thats not legit either."

Oh man. Yang's a White Crane guy. His taiji is.....he's a white crane guy.

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

Its not that hard to know a few styles and know how to seperate and combine the different energies and techniques. If we all did forms the same we would be no better than robots. Dr. Yang has a clear understanding of taiji and his style is very unique.

I didnt learn from Dr Yang but one of his Taiji Students who practices only Dr. Yang's and Yang Zhen Dou's Taiji cirriculum.

[Buddy]

"Its not that hard to know a few styles and know how to seperate and combine the different energies and techniques."

Nonsense. Taiji has a particular shenfa and it is different entirely from Baihe.

"If we all did forms the same we would be no better than robots. Dr. Yang has a clear understanding of taiji and his style is very unique."


I don't believe he does and his book (and my personal observance) seems to bear that out.

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

I have been reading this book. there is a statement that i really liked in it something about tai chi being ineffective unless you have studied deeply some other type of martial art.

In particular he says shaolin is a good one to study. I think the legendary sage Chang San Feng studied Shaolin before going to Wudang eh? The Yangs knew something about martial arts before learning Tai chi right?

[Buddy]

"I have been reading this book. there is a statement that i really liked in it something about tai chi being ineffective unless you have studied deeply some other type of martial art."

Well that's just complete horseshuit. Tell that to the Chen's face. Or to any top Yang guy, or Wu.


"In particular he says shaolin is a good one to study."

Well he's wrong. As I said, different body method entirely. No wonder you have "wushu" site.

"I think the legendary sage Chang San Feng studied Shaolin before going to Wudang eh?"

Fa fooks sake, have you read nothing about real history?

"The Yangs knew something about martial arts before learning Tai chi right?"

No. Yang Luchan went to Chen village. Jeez read a FAQ or two.

[Mo Ling]

"I have been reading this book. there is a statement that i really liked in it something about tai chi being ineffective unless you have studied deeply some other type of martial art."

oh, that is depressing...
here is an important educational point to consider when judging taijiquan practitioners and teachers; If someone claims tai chi is ineffective unless some other martial art is trained, that is a personal admission of their own utter lack of training, skill, understanding, and honesty regarding taijiquan.

If one cannot be effective in it that is a sign of one's own poor practice, or poor instruction. It is not a revelation about the true nature of taijiquan LOL!!!

In other words, if Yang jwing Ming said that, he is clearly telling you that HE does not understand or have any skill in taijiquan so he requires the services of another martial art to make it effective... great...

"The Yangs knew something about martial arts before learning Tai chi right?"

Wrong. Yang Lu Chan; 3 trips-18 years in Chen Family Creek, training Chen fist.

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

some scholars believe even yang lu chan studied longfist before chen. he had already heard of chen famous taijiquan as a martial artist and decided to learn there to supplement his already technical knowledge.

did you know chen zhen lei is one of the top 10 wushu coaches in china! they even do wushu basic in chen village!! so stfu!

dr. yang never said any of that . dont put words in his or my mouth. the book was written by chen pan ling.

[froggy]

Cheng Zheng Lei is a top wushu coach in China.....

What wushu? do you mean changquan??? surely not....

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

wushu means "war arts" is is classified into several major categories. modern and traditional, internal and external, forms and combat.

chen zhen lei teaches chen taijiquan not longfist. however they practice wushu basics like stretching, stances, stretch kicks, jumps, ect. that are common in most modern wushu classes.

do you know why?

the reasoning is to develope a strong kung fu body that most people doing taiji dont have. it makes a better taiji player than one who does not do those things.

[shrub]

Ma,

Give it a rest.

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

i will have plenty of rest when I am dead.

anyways I was suprised myself when I heard that the leaders in chenjiaogou (chen village) were implementing wushu basics.

[Brad]

I forgot what I was going to write...

"I have been reading this book. there is a statement that i really liked in it something about tai chi being ineffective unless you have studied deeply some other type of martial art."

oh, that is depressing...

Anyway, figured I'd comment on this... While it is depressing, I'd say it's pretty much true for the majority of taiji quan schools out there, and has been for awhile. Out of all the people out there that have only studied taiji quan, how many actually learned it in a manner that they could use it as a martial art?

[shrub]

Ma,

The reason I asked you to give it a rest is that you are digging a bigger hole every time you post. Your total lack of understanding and knowledge is pathetic.

Basic training in flexibility, strength, stance, kicks, etc. is required in all Kungfu styles. It is the first thing they teach you in a good Tai Chi school . In fact the old traditional schools don't even teach you the forms until you are proficient in the fundamentals. That's the way it has been done for hundreds of years. It is not something new or borrowed from Wushu.

Go find a good teacher and stop wasting time making ridiculous assertions.

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

i have great teachers... each is very high caliber for what they teach and know. its all there on my webpage. i dont mention the taiji grandmaster because they are seminar material and not local teachers. thank you very much.