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Thread: Hero takes the cake

  1. #31
    You don't get extra points for making it more graphic and gruesome. I found blade 2 a total blood bath and well over the top.

  2. #32
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    Back to Hero

    I wasn't overly impressed by Hero as a 'martial arts' film for its fight scenes. Except for the Jet/Donnie fight, the fight scenes weren't that great, and that one happens early in the film, instead of the stereotypic over-the-top battle royale finale. What impressed me about Hero was its cinematography, acting and ultimately, it's story. It's a beautiful film - Zhang Yimou handles overblown color as well as Kurosawa - every frame is a compositional masterpiece. The performances, especially for Maggie Cheung, were great too. Jet's stoicism worked well, it didn't overstep his acting range. But most of all, the story really spoke to me about what it can mean to follow the way of the warrior, the philisophic underpinnings of filial piety and wude, the right course of action and sacrifice. It ranks right up there with The Seven Samurai for me as a martial allegory.

    Don't get me wrong. I love a good fight scene as much as the next forum member here. But Hero is something more to me. It's not your typical martial arts film and it's not a derivation of Crouching Tiger. It's an unprecedented triumph, tainted by a horrible US release.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Back to Hero

    Originally posted by GeneChing
    It's an unprecedented triumph, tainted by a horrible US release.
    I've only seen the version released to vcd/dvd in asia... what's the difference between that version and the US release?

  4. #34
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    Re: Back to Hero

    Originally posted by GeneChing
    I wasn't overly impressed by Hero as a 'martial arts' film for its fight scenes. Except for the Jet/Donnie fight, the fight scenes weren't that great, and that one happens early in the film, instead of the stereotypic over-the-top battle royale finale. What impressed me about Hero was its cinematography, acting and ultimately, it's story. It's a beautiful film - Zhang Yimou handles overblown color as well as Kurosawa - every frame is a compositional masterpiece. The performances, especially for Maggie Cheung, were great too. Jet's stoicism worked well, it didn't overstep his acting range. But most of all, the story really spoke to me about what it can mean to follow the way of the warrior, the philisophic underpinnings of filial piety and wude, the right course of action and sacrifice. It ranks right up there with The Seven Samurai for me as a martial allegory.

    Don't get me wrong. I love a good fight scene as much as the next forum member here. But Hero is something more to me. It's not your typical martial arts film and it's not a derivation of Crouching Tiger. It's an unprecedented triumph, tainted by a horrible US release.

    I have to disagree Gene. The story was very predictable. The group of people I was with were all wriggling in their seats waiting for the movie to come to it's inevitable conclusion.

    People are talking about the colors in the film and the "masterpiece" sets and so forth. Yes, the locations were beautiful, actors beautiful, costume beautiful and the cinematography was well done.

    However, the CGI effects and wire effects really detracted from all that. Case in point, when the archers let their arrows fly. That looked really cheesy. About on the level of Alfred Hitchocks "the birds" special effects....which is 50 years old!

    As someone pointed out these kinds of things really distracted from the movie by taking you "out" of the film.

    And the music....Christ!....if you played the melody from Crouching Tiger and this movie they are almost indistiguishable.

    Like I stated before Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon part II....only a lot schlockier and less attention to detail.

  5. #35
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    Originally posted by Becca
    [B]You meen there was no CMA that you coose to agnoledge as such. Remember the true meening of Gong Fu, or Kung Fu, runns much deeper that "I can defend myself and do forms well." And a lack of MA backround does not preclude that one can or cannot portray any rael ability on the silver screen. Or that the director will let them.
    [B]
    Sure we did. But some of use enjoy that sort of thing...

    We noticed. I do value your opinion on this. I really do. But I also felt the need to let you know that some of use did enjoy it. And I absolutely love "Drunken Master" as well as "Operation Condor." Not for the MA, but for the the very funny "B" movie acting. And Jackie is at his best in that type of setting, IMO.
    There was no MARTIAL ARTS....except for the very first fight. The spear vs. 3 guys with swords was awsome...untill they went and RUINED IT by having Jet Li float horozontally, defying everything I know from personal experience about gravity, for WAY to long. Jacki Chan MAY have used wires to lean at some crazy angles in Drunken Master II but it all looked like it was POSSIBLE. It seemed intuitively correct...

    I enjoy that sort of thing too. I reccomend the movie to my American friends. Where I get worked up is when people put it up for best foreign film like that piece of crap Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. If you want to see some quality film in that genre that blows the doors off of Hero then look up King Hu (the director). He was using Sergio Leone type panoromic aspect ratios and building stories around poetry and romance even back in the 60's. His lead's were dancers and Chinese opera trained actors. But "Nu Xia" (Woman Hero?) and "Zui Xia" (Drunken Hero) are absolutely mesmorizing.

    I am a HUGE fan of B movies. But I don't delude myself into thinking they are not "crap". Most of what people in the west liked about Hero is stuff that is already old overdone cliche in China. They just threw more money at it.

    Cynicism.

    At least I'm being honest about it...which is more than I can say for the producers of Hero. (I highly respect the director thoght. Zhang Yi Mo is one of my favorites)

    "Hero" was a kind of a political piece. It was very ostentatiously a "See! Beijing can produce action movies too!" piece. The media here (China) was filled with interviews from the leads talking about how they abandoned other projects for the honor of getting to work on this one. Way to much of the press was about how it was NOT made in Hong Kong.

    Thematically it was also about a harsh dictator who was actually only killing millions for the sake of national peace. Qin Shi Huang Di (the first emperor) was actually acting out of a love for the people of China. The movie resonates with the recent re-aquisistion of HK and more signifigantly, the Taiwan "question". '

    Then there was the general feeling in China that this film was made specifically for foreign audiences. It followed directly on the heels of CTHD. Zhang Yi Mo has never been tremendously popular in China. Most locals are not really fond of romanticising peasant life. The popular view of Chinese peasants (and there are plenty still around to see first hand) is crude, uneducated and generally an embarassment to the society at large. So there is something wierd about the one guy who keeps filming them being the darling of the 1st world.

    Now it's the new hip trend to find the directors most popular OUTSIDE of China and give them an unlimtied budet to do an action flick.

    Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon
    Hero
    The Hulk

    Gotta run. v

  6. #36

    Re: Back to Hero

    Originally posted by GeneChing
    I wasn't overly impressed by Hero as a 'martial arts' film for its fight scenes. Except for the Jet/Donnie fight, the fight scenes weren't that great, and that one happens early in the film, instead of the stereotypic over-the-top battle royale finale. What impressed me about Hero was its cinematography, acting and ultimately, it's story. It's a beautiful film - Zhang Yimou handles overblown color as well as Kurosawa - every frame is a compositional masterpiece. The performances, especially for Maggie Cheung, were great too. Jet's stoicism worked well, it didn't overstep his acting range. But most of all, the story really spoke to me about what it can mean to follow the way of the warrior, the philisophic underpinnings of filial piety and wude, the right course of action and sacrifice. It ranks right up there with The Seven Samurai for me as a martial allegory.

    Don't get me wrong. I love a good fight scene as much as the next forum member here. But Hero is something more to me. It's not your typical martial arts film and it's not a derivation of Crouching Tiger. It's an unprecedented triumph, tainted by a horrible US release.
    Gene, this is a great post. Exactly how I feel about the movie in every respect.

    I also crave nacho ninjettes....

    Wait a minute.... you're not me are you?
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  7. #37
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    Fu-Pow reminds of me the guy I watched American Splendor with. After the movie, he said "It was O.K. Could have shown some tits, though."

    Don't worry, Fu-Pow. Mel Gibson will make another Lethal Weapon for you soon!
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  8. #38
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    Brotherhood of the Wolf is a great MA movie. That is progress, using cutting edge movie-fu and technology to create something different.
    Yes! Ton of great fights. And it taught us some valuable lessons - french women love native americans, and it is possible to kill an armor-clad lion using kung fu.
    Cut the tiny testicles off of both of these rich, out-of-touch sumbiches, crush kill and destroy the Electoral College, wipe clean from the Earth the stain of our corrupt politicians, and elect me as the new president. --Vash

  9. #39
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    Originally posted by MasterKiller
    Fu-Pow reminds of me the guy I watched American Splendor with. After the movie, he said "It was O.K. Could have shown some tits, though."

    Don't worry, Fu-Pow. Mel Gibson will make another Lethal Weapon for you soon!
    True, tits will increase my movie rating by at least 1 1/2 stars..... ....please see the director's cut of Euro Trip....lousy movie but lots of tits so I give it a thumbs up.

  10. #40
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    Predicting Hero

    If you know the first thing about China, the instant you hear that it's Emperor Qin, you know how it's going to end. To me, the movie is more about kung fu than martial arts. The whole calligraphy metaphor was brilliant. That's real kung fu, not martial arts.

    I'll be eager to see if it can keep up as #1 box over Labor Day. Do you think Vanity Fair can unseat Hero? We'll see....
    Gene Ching
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  11. #41
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    Except being the first emperor of China he should have been an evil *******. Qin Shi Huang Di was NOT known for being cultured. He was supposedly crude, violent and ultra super paranoid.

    Go rent "The Emperor And The Assasin" for a more honest and IMHO interesting portrayal. And it's starring Gong Li too so it's easy on the eyes.

    Really, it's a better film than "Hero". "Hero" is just eye candy. Most people in China jsut groaned at the calligraphy metapore. My GF was like, "Oh...you gotta be kidding. PLEASE don't tell me their going with the calligraphy metaphore..."

  12. #42
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    Wow. The language police are pretty sever hear. I can't even use the word for the product of a King's outside affairs.

  13. #43
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    man...it's just a movie and it's not meant to be historically relevant or accurate.

    The great majority of people in the west who view it do not correlate the commie message it purveys, nor do they have a clue as to who the yellow emperor was.

    there are probably a lot of movies that are adored in china that are total turkeys here don't forget. In fact, I know this to be true..lol.

    It's a story, that is all. Mostly about unrequited love (like 80% of all chinese movies) and mostly an attempt to build on the momentum caused by cthd in order to make it big in the world markets.

    So, having said that...artistically speaking, it is lavishly filmed, they make great use of the steady cam (following the players), I really liked how the colour of the backdrops and clothing changed according to the version of the story that was being iterated/ reiterated and overall it was a fairly decent movie.

    It certainly wasn't a documentary.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  14. #44
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    Neither was "The Emperor And The Assasin". But :

    The great majority of people in the west who view it do not correlate the commie message it purveys, nor do they have a clue as to who the yellow emperor was.
    ...gets right to my point. That movie was made specially for you "people in the west". It doesn't have to be a documentary to have historical overtones that grate on people. It's like trying to put a positive spin on Stalin or something.

    The first emperor is known in the popular culture of China as an evi,l ruthless, bloodthirsty b******. Even as I was thouroughly enjoying watching my blackmarket illegally copied VCD of it in my living room I knew that I shouldn't bother asking my GF to come in and watch it with me.

    That's why I say my main problem with it is my own cynicism. It feels like a film made with pure market research and they hit "you guys" (the target audience) dead on.

    But sure, tastes vary and lots of popular stuff in China is just garbage. But that just goes to my point about B-movies. I like them for what they are. And OFTEN they are made with much more sincerity than the 'A' list stuff.

  15. #45
    Historical contents.

    China was in warring states for over 500 years only to end by Qin.

    Great minds and philosophers appeared in this period. Confuscious, Lao Zhuang, Meng Tzu, Sun Tzu, on and on.

    The stories around Qin Shi Huang and his assasins changed all the time.

    Most people seem to like the most recent one depicted in the movie.

    Do not underestimate the "knowledge" of common people including farmers.

    This movies has many and many implications for Chinese people.

    After opening door to the west since 1978, China enjoyed a sustained economic growth. Communist ideaology bankrupted the country. Culture revolution hungered million's people. What to believe?

    Student's demands for more freedom were silenced in 1989.

    Falun was banned.

    This movies was rolled out to use Tien Xia or nationalism to unite China as a single front and call to Taiwan.

    On personal notes:

    Wu Ming (Nameless) was able to kill QSH. He chose not to. He gave up his revenge for his family and country of Zhao. In exchange of peace under one ruler AFTER over 550 years of never ending wars in the middle kingdoms.

    If you place your small self into the greater self, the small self is no longer important.

    On Buddhist notes:

    Atman and Anatman. Self and no or non-self.

    Long Sky had given up his life. Wu Ming failed and put his death in vain. It is not just (Yi). Wu Ming did not keep the promise to assasinate. It is not faithful/trustworthy (Xin). Wu Ming was willing to die for his Xin Yi for his family, country of Zhao, and Broken sword. He was willing to die for the bigger self called Tien Xia.

    On the other hand, QSH owed his life to his assassins. Whatever he accomplished is also credited to them.

    On MA notes:

    QSH unified the languages and the country. He also burned a lot of books including TCMA books. Some books were hidden within the walls of the houses to avoid burning.

    Peace.


    Last edited by SPJ; 09-10-2004 at 06:28 PM.

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