The Shaolin Grandmasters Text

[Northwind]

Ren, although what you say may be true, READ THE BOOK...You will see fairly quickly (I hope) that it's B.S. through and through. These (f)suckers would have gotten away with this scam before the internet and are probably (and unforutnately ) getting away with it now in small towns, however it's pure BS no doubt.
Glad to see the one fellow was able to educate his self via this very forum!

[Punch.HeadButt]

I'm going necromancer on this thread at Gene's request, since I've read the book he asked me to give my take. I lied, though, Gene....I didn't read this whole thread, I jumped to replying after page 14ish.

Not that it will be helpful to anyone. I bought this book on a whim and it sure as hell wasn't $40 when I did (I can't remember how much it was, but I wouldn't have put down that much for ANY book that didn't give me a hummer and a sandwich after reading it). I never checked their website or looked into "OSC", I just glanced at a few positive mentions and picked it up (again...not $40. good god...). Also, I'm not very scholarly when it comes to Shaolin....this book was the first book I had ever bought and read specifically about Shaolin and Chan Buddhism. Honestly, it was years ago that I read it, so I don't remember much. Like at all. I remember info about Chan Buddhism that I haven't seen conflict with other sources that I've stumbled across, but as has been pointed out that information is readily available and not hard to repeat. Aspects of the book were definitely suspect even to a neophyte....the anonymity, the white-guys-in-gis illustrations....I just remember a lot of the time I was reading it I thought its whole vibe was strange. A bit off-putting.

Of course, now I know why that is. I've forgotten most of it, though some memories still get triggered....like the "Decree of the Guardian" that ultimately led to my having to post this message.

You know what's funny, Gene? Before I asked about that in the other thread, I vaguely remembered the "Decree" and asked myself "Am I remembering that right? Is that really a thing?" So I Googled it, and upon seeing a few references to it and its definition on various websites, I was like "Okay, yeah...it is a thing. I will now ask the question."

Now I'm guessing those websites share a common source of info..

See, this is what I get for half-hearted interest in history. It's such an all-or-nothing field of study.

[Fa Xing]

I have to say, that after reading this whole thread, and having thumbed through this book years ago, I had known it was BS from the get-go.

It looked too much like Kung Fu the TV series.

I read Shahar's book a few months ago, and quite frankly, it was an eye-opener and explained a lot about the development of Shaolin martial arts and CMA. I would love to read Brian Kennedy's books, they look amazing.

[LFJ]

Can't remember if I ever posted in this thread, but several years ago I had a conversation with one of the authors of this book and questioned him on several things. He said they first considered including a full chapter on their lineage and history, but ultimately decided against it because it would take the focus away from the content of their book (like rather than help validate it?).

The whole thing is laughable really, especially the photo of their "Shaolin Monk" in the back. It's a black & white photo of a white guy wearing like a Karate Gi with long 70's hair, doing a front jump kick so that his face is covered by his movement.

They should have decided against that photo, rather than that lineage chapter!

[Fa Xing]

Can't remember if I ever posted in this thread, but several years ago I had a conversation with one of the authors of this book and questioned him on several things. He said they first considered including a full chapter on their lineage and history, but ultimately decided against it because it would take the focus away from the content of their book (like rather than help validate it?).

The whole thing is laughable really, especially the photo of their "Shaolin Monk" in the back. It's a black & white photo of a white guy wearing like a Karate Gi with long 70's hair, doing a front jump kick so that his face is covered by his movement.

They should have decided against that photo, rather than that lineage chapter!

Actually, you did post that! Honestly, it's been sometime since I've seen the book, and will have to have a look at it to see that picture.

[rett]

I read that book four or five years ago. Regret having paid for it. *ack* *gack* on every page.

[Jimbo]

I have to say, that after reading this whole thread, and having thumbed through this book years ago, I had known it was BS from the get-go.

It looked too much like Kung Fu the TV series.

I read Shahar's book a few months ago, and quite frankly, it was an eye-opener and explained a lot about the development of Shaolin martial arts and CMA. I would love to read Brian Kennedy's books, they look amazing.

Yes, Brian Kennedy's books are excellent. If you get the chance to read them, don't hesitate!

[LFJ]

Actually, you did post that! Honestly, it's been sometime since I've seen the book, and will have to have a look at it to see that picture.

Ah, it's worth bringing back to the top though. lol

[Fa Xing]

I actually saw the book on Amazon for $0.59+3.99 shipping, and contemplated getting hit just to read it but then thought that the money would be better spent at Starbucks .

[Fa Xing]

Yes, Brian Kennedy's books are excellent. If you get the chance to read them, don't hesitate!

I definitely want to, I was looking at the contents for the Chinese Manuals one, and it looked awesome.

[Sifu Bok Se Teung]

I came across this thread late, but wanted to weigh in. The thread is full of emotional posts calling the material in the book b.s. and so forth, but can any of us know it isn't true? What is your basis for comparison? Your modern day training with modified current forms? Or is it comparing what is written in the book with what is coming out of the new re-created Communist government run Shaolin Temple in Honan?

What is being presented out of the re-created Honan Temple is where the baloney is. What they teach as authentic Shaolin forms is nothing but mishmashed Communist Wu Shu with a dose of Longfist thrown in. And the Chan Buddhism these monks have suddenly discovered these past ten years is imported from India. I applaud the temple for continuously trying to move closer to Shaolin. Gone are the actors and the cigarette smoking monks hanging outside the dimsum (coke) machines. But the fact remains Shaolin Chan is not at all like the Mayahaha Buddhism that the monks have embraced.

When Ta Mo came to China with his brand of Buddhism Taoism and Confucism were the dominant religions. So it was natural some of those concepts would be interbred into the new Buddhism. It's not unlike the paganism that got intermixed with Christianity. What developed was a new form of Buddhism that became known as Ch'an or Chan. Chan embraces our oneness with nature. Chan emphasizes meditation as the path to enlightenment as opposed to rituals, prayers, good deeds or reciting of Sutras. Chan Shaolin Buddhists did not embrace the Three Treasures, or the Four Diamonds or the this Sutra or that Sutra. The Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path contained therein was the extent of what they embraced. That it the Mayhana Buddhism that has been brought back from India.

I have heard some here at the satellite Shaolin centers deny that Shaolin ever absorbed Taoism. The Temples at Wudang and O'Mei were totally Taoist, yet part of the Shaolin order. Shaolin today practices chi development and has many exercises and forms to that end. Yet, if you stop and think of the origins of chi development you'll find they are in the Taoist temples. Also, why do you think they built their temples in nature so they could be close to nature and its harmony.

In conclusion, I am not saying one way or another that this book is authentic or not. Rather I simply ask that you examine what "truth" you are measuring it against.

Peace.

Sifu Bok Se Teung
5th Degree Red Sash
12th Order, Red Dragon Level
Hu Lan Temple of Shaolin

[Northwind]

.................................................

[bawang]

I came across this thread late, but wanted to weigh in. The thread is full of emotional posts calling the material in the book b.s. and so forth, but can any of us know it isn't true? What is your basis for comparison? Your modern day training with modified current forms? Or is it comparing what is written in the book with what is coming out of the new re-created Communist government run Shaolin Temple in Honan?

What is being presented out of the re-created Honan Temple is where the baloney is. What they teach as authentic Shaolin forms is nothing but mishmashed Communist Wu Shu with a dose of Longfist thrown in. And the Chan Buddhism these monks have suddenly discovered these past ten years is imported from India. I applaud the temple for continuously trying to move closer to Shaolin. Gone are the actors and the cigarette smoking monks hanging outside the dimsum (coke) machines. But the fact remains Shaolin Chan is not at all like the Mayahaha Buddhism that the monks have embraced.

When Ta Mo came to China with his brand of Buddhism Taoism and Confucism were the dominant religions. So it was natural some of those concepts would be interbred into the new Buddhism. It's not unlike the paganism that got intermixed with Christianity. What developed was a new form of Buddhism that became known as Ch'an or Chan. Chan embraces our oneness with nature. Chan emphasizes meditation as the path to enlightenment as opposed to rituals, prayers, good deeds or reciting of Sutras. Chan Shaolin Buddhists did not embrace the Three Treasures, or the Four Diamonds or the this Sutra or that Sutra. The Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path contained therein was the extent of what they embraced. That it the Mayhana Buddhism that has been brought back from India.

I have heard some here at the satellite Shaolin centers deny that Shaolin ever absorbed Taoism. The Temples at Wudang and O'Mei were totally Taoist, yet part of the Shaolin order. Shaolin today practices chi development and has many exercises and forms to that end. Yet, if you stop and think of the origins of chi development you'll find they are in the Taoist temples. Also, why do you think they built their temples in nature so they could be close to nature and its harmony.

In conclusion, I am not saying one way or another that this book is authentic or not. Rather I simply ask that you examine what "truth" you are measuring it against.

Peace.

Sifu Bok Se Teung
5th Degree Red Sash
12th Order, Red Dragon Level
Hu Lan Temple of Shaolin

you are fuked in the head.

[Northwind]

Although I am not sure I completely agree with Bawang's sentiment (good to see him again though), I could not give a detailed response more than .... meaning - where the hell do I start? and just "really, dude, really?".

In short, there is too much verified information out there to still be living in the stone age of kung fu mythos from the 70's. We all (well those of us old enough) went through it, but at some point you must grow past the superficial stuff and actually do a bit of reading and research. There is really much much more to it than that, but well it is a very good place to start.

No more fortune cookies for you sir.

BTW...Can you please share the Chinese characters for Hu Lan?....

[bawang]

Although I am not sure I completely agree with Bawang's sentiment (good to see him again though), I could not give a detailed response more than .... meaning - where the hell do I start? and just "really, dude, really?".

In short, there is too much verified information out there to still be living in the stone age of kung fu mythos from the 70's. We all (well those of us old enough) went through it, but at some point you must grow past the superficial stuff and actually do a bit of reading and research. There is really much much more to it than that, but well it is a very good place to start.

No more fortune cookies for you sir.

I am using principle of chan, finding profound in the simple. ponder upon my words, and you will find deep meaning.

No more fortune cookies for you sir.

BTW...Can you please share the Chinese characters for Hu Lan?....

from 8 animals, sounds like kenpo guy who dabbled in hung gar.