The Shaolin Grandmasters Text

[emre]

Further research reveals that our mysterious Shaolin Monk is in fact a computer scientist that lives in Seattle and works for Boeing.

lol!

Our bookworm... cough... Shaolin Monk, is behind both Order of Shaolin Chan and Shaolin.com, the latter of which is a website that teaches you authentic Shaolin gongfu on the internet.

[wushu chik]

No no...this is by FAR my fave question....

2. Is this the same as the "kung fu" TV series?

Both of the styles seen on the original Warner Brothers series (1971-1977), black crane or Chin Na (David Chow as technical advisor) in the earlier shows and praying mantis (Kam Yuen as technical advisor) in the later ones, are Shaolin kung fu styles. The philosophical content of this series was mostly accurate (in our estimation, the temple flashbacks were arguably the best part of the series). The more recent "Kung Fu: The Legend Continues" (1992--) uses a random assortment of styles, many, we suspect, devised just for a particular episode...

And people teased ME about Capo Fu Do??

First off Sifu Kam- the narator in the movie says he's doing PM, it's actually Shaolin 4.

Second- WTF Black Crane = Chin Na?? I'm utterly confuseled by this....

And Third- KARATE GI'S-------need I say more??

And it STILL doesn't say who the hell teaches (not that I found) just like shaolin.org doesn't say who put out the book or anything- just got the response to my email from "T".

~Wen~

[Fen]

Setting:
***OSC and FWK face off with OSC in a Black Crane pose (like Daniel-San from The Karate Kid). FWK just stands there trying to suppress his laugher while holding a black Gaiwan full of Dragon Pearl Tea (-the tea compliments of Tao of Tea , Portland Oregon.)
*Rain beats upon the ground and the tables surrounding them in the courtyard at the headquarters of “The Order of Shaolin Ch'an” (hmmm…can we say very CULT sounding??? Hmmmmmmm)***

FWK> “And now, as you have dishonored the name of Shaolin and all of us that believe in it, I will now destroy you and all that you stand for.”

***FWK places the Gaiwan upon the table nearest him.

***OSC takes a step back and tries to define his Black Crane pose.

OSC> “NO- I will defeat you with my BLACK CRANE techniques. You will no longer question me and I will have DEFEATED YOU…..Muahahahahahahahahaha” (sfx, reverb echo)

***FWK moves with lightening speed before another drop of water can hit the ground. He lands and pulls of the Monkey slaps the peach technique on OSC. A high pitched screech comes from OSC while he falls to the ground.

OSC> EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

FWK> “SO, you think your kung fu is good?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.” (synth fx)

OSC> “I WILL DESTROY YOU…….”

***With rage in his eyes, he stands back up onto his feet and begins to run for FWK while flapping his arms like he’s trying to lift off the ground. We here that this is a highly efficient Black Crane technique used all over the world. (Flash back to Jim Carrey in Batman & Robin at the asylum for the next scene…….)

OSC> “I am the BLACK CRANE MAN………I……AM…..THE…..BLACK……CRANE……MAN”

***FWK- In one fatal move, he applies the Shaolin Death Kick as he watches his opponent fall helplessly to the ground. He steps back into the “Taming the Tiger” pose. He then stands up, grabs his Gaiwan with his Dragon Pearl tea (compliments of Tao of Tea , Portland Oregon) and walks to the door. He stops, looks over his shoulder and laughs.

FWK> “MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.” (reverb echo, synth fx)

***Somewhere in the distance Tong Na Ho hears a black crane cry.

[emre]

I fear our friends might be more qualified to write books on the mating habits of cranes than the fighting arts modeled after them.

[Just a Guy]

Heart-warming amusements.

Black Crane is a legitimate style with very few folks still practicing. David Chow is a master of Black Crane. Call him up and tell him his style is crap. Much of the ch'in na in White Crane was adopted from the older Black Crane style. Is it so hard to believe that there may be martial styles in the world which you haven't heard of? There're plenty I've never heard of.

The Order of Shaolin Ch'an is in no way affiliated with shaolin.com. Shaolin.com is an informational website run by a student of a master who *is* a member of the Order of Shaolin Ch'an. This student runs that website as his own activity, and yes, there are inaccuracies and problems with some of the information presented. There is also a variety of useful and accurate information on that website.

If people aren't interested in this new book, that isn't a problem. Don't buy it. Ignore it.

Our organization does not make a fetish out of secrecy. But realize that this whole Confucian business of comparing lineages is a pai/gar activity. It has never been a Shaolin tradition to do anything to "make a name" for oneself or discuss who one's teachers are with anyone besides other Shaolin. We have stretched beyond our custom in putting the names of some deceased masters of our organization on the amazon.com description page for The Shaolin Grandmasters' Text (and some details about them in the book). If people lack the resources to verify who these men were, and so wish to substitute derision for curiosity or (at worst) disinterest, that's unfortunate.

It's astonishing that anonymity should upset some people so much. I can only assume those who are upset are interested, but also wary, and for some reason have decided that snide put-downs will make for a fun pastime. That's fine. Wait for reviews. We have posted a few comments by Sifu Paul Eng (who studied T'ai Chi Mantis with Chiu Chuk Kai, Tiger with Wong Moon Toy, and Seven Stars Mantis with Kam Yuen) on www.shaolintemple.org. There will be more reviews, some being published in the future which I have already received advance notice of.

[Fen]

Reviews: from http://www.shaolintemple.org./publication.htm#reviews

"The book is excellent...Finally, after all of these years there is a book that every martial artist should read to get the true meaning of gung fu."

Sifu Paul Eng (www.taimantiskungfu.com)

Well I have an e-mail in to Sifu Eng to see if this is true? Also Be a where that Sifu Eng is my kung fu uncle. He is my Sifus Sihing..

~Jason

[emre]

Originally posted by Just a Guy
Heart-warming amusements.

Indeed...

The Order of Shaolin Ch'an is in no way affiliated with shaolin.com. Shaolin.com is an informational website run by a student of a master who *is* a member of the Order of Shaolin Ch'an. This student runs that website as his own activity, and yes, there are inaccuracies and problems with some of the information presented. There is also a variety of useful and accurate information on that website.

The Shaolin.com domain is registered under a "Small Forest Company" in Seattle.

There's a branch of the Order of Shaolin Chan called "Virtual Museum of Natural History", which can be found at curator.org. They are both registered under the order under the same PO box in WA. The president and director, Robert George Sprackland, is also the founder of the Small Forest Company(aren't Buddhists not supposed to lie?). He's a Zoologist, who I'm guessing assumes his secret monk identity on weekends and uses a pu-dao to chop onions for his wife.

Another one of the directors, Daniel J Diessner, can be identified as one of the "masters" for the Order of Shaolin Chan, since one of his email adresses begins with sibak@. This man is a computer scientist and works for Boeing. Right Livelihood in his case is working for a huge corporation. Shaolin Monk indeed, I wonder how much time he's had to master the Shaolin arts that he's claiming mastery and lineage of. What's his qualification to teach?

Yet another one, secretary and director Chip E. Miller, PhD, is one of the few people recommended as a master to train under outside of their own at the website of the Order. He teaches the Black Crane style so must have learned it from these people.Once again, makes one wonder how much time he had to master it between his dissertation, his professional career and his charity work.

For all their ragging on the Henan Shaolin temple and its Monks, these are a bunch of weekend warriors that are only playing Monk. The 16 year old Wushu students in Denfeng probably have more real gongfu than these guys, because that's all they do, every day.

If people hide, it's because they have something to hide. These people know that if they came out and published a book that claimed to be written by "Two living Shaolin monks, based on materials left by three deceased Shaolin grandmasters" , they would be laughed at by the whole MA community because they are no Monks. So instead they hide their identity, and try to live off of the name of Shaolin, which they so readily abuse on their Shaolin.com website, which is commercial and not informational by the way, while all the time making a ruckus about the trademarking of Shaolin. Wonder why.

I don't know if those 3 Monks ever were in NYC or if they ever taught anyone, I'm sure that'll come out soon too. What I do know is that these guys are no monks, they're just delusional enough to think they are.

The truth will set you free.

[emre]

Originally posted by Just a Guy


Our organization does not make a fetish out of secrecy. But realize that this whole Confucian business of comparing lineages is a pai/gar activity. It has never been a Shaolin tradition to do anything to "make a name" for oneself or discuss who one's teachers are with anyone besides other Shaolin.

I call bull.

The whole lineage thing is the traditional equivalent of having a degree, which I'm sure your members [cough] monks are all too familiar with. They are quite proud when they display their college degrees and see no need to hide them.

Being a lineage disciple and indoor student of someone who is in turn a lineage disciple is the "qualification" to teach the art, just like having a PhD is the qualification to teach at a university. When you write a book, you're essentially teaching publicly, and you're required to disclose the accurate source of information, who you are and why you're qualified to teach.

Unless, of course, who you are is nothing like who you can give the impression of being by hiding under a veil of secrecy and the latter is much more financially rewarding...

[emre]

Originally posted by tao of wushu
Well I have an e-mail in to Sifu Eng to see if this is true? Also Be a where that Sifu Eng is my kung fu uncle. He is my Sifus Sihing..

No offense to Mr. Eng, since he's a legitimate master, but these guys seem to have a connection with him. They sell his books and he's on their very short "recommended list". Then he seems to have read the book before it was even published, so...

We'll need some completely independent sources to get to the bottom of the Chinatown end of the story.

[r.(shaolin)]

Hello emre.

I'm cuorious, what CMA do you practice and who is your teacher?


r.

[Just a Guy]

Emre is unlikely to disclose his identity, as Emre stands to lose something if the authenticity of the Shaolin monks in the PRC is damaged in any way. (It's hard to imagine another reason for so much slander and vilification.)

Eng Sifu got an early review copy of the book because we believe he is one of about a dozen premier martial artists in America, and we were primarily concerned with his input on the content of the book - not a quote to use for promotional purposes. But he said some nice things and gave us permission to use them, so we have.

An important part of the Buddha's message was to look for content in finding the Way; to look beyond appearances. In releasing this book, we have tried to minimize our involvement so that people will assess it on the basis of content - and use it or discard it as they wish. Some people insist that all information be justified by an "argument by authority" - but that's exactly what the Buddha (and Tamo) strove to get away from.

[emre]

My last two teachers were Yang Jwing Ming and Bill Ryan who's a senior student of Bruce Frantzis. I recently had to relocate and I'm nursing an injury sustained in an accident. I'm practicing my Qigong before I decide on a new teacher.

Anyway, I don't see how that's relevant, since I don't write books and claim mastery of things I don't know. I have no responsibility to disclose my lineage because I'm not trying to sell people anything.

[emre]

Originally posted by Just a Guy
Emre is unlikely to disclose his identity, as Emre stands to lose something if the authenticity of the Shaolin monks in the PRC is damaged in any way. (It's hard to imagine another reason for so much slander and vilification.)

Lol, look who's talking about disclosing identities. Your lies have been uncovered, now you're trying to shift the focus of the argument.

I have no connection whatsoever with the Shaolin temple or any of its monks.

[Just a Guy]

Why are you so upset then?

Are you experiencing righteous indignation at the possibility that some group of people are lying about Shaolin heritage and using that to rip people off?

Before launching into your attack of slander and put-downs, have you also considered the possibility that the OSC is legitimate, has a legitimate lineage, is not taking advantage of anyone, and prefers anonymity for reasons that may not make sense to *you*?

[emre]

Originally posted by Just a Guy
Why are you so upset then?

Are you experiencing righteous indignation at the possibility that some group of people are lying about Shaolin heritage and using that to rip people off?

I'm not upset so much as I'm passionate about doing what I can to prevent what I see as fraudulent advertising. Maybe it's just me, but when I see statements like "the only surviving grandmasters", and the like, alarm bells go off in my head.

I don't care about what your secret reasons are for staying anonymous and if they're so important then you shouldn't have written a book.