The Shaolin Grandmasters Text

[David Jamieson]

The only place I ever heard of black crane was at shaolin.com.

is there a connection?

[Fen]

I saw that too KL!!! lol

OSC ~vs~ TCMA the Movie! B Rated

FWK> I Fen Wen Ke have come to challenge you! ( Synthesizer SFX as FWK comes though the gate )

OSC> I will except your challenge…. and I will use my Black Crane Style, …… and I will DEFEAT YOU! (Synthesizer SFX)

FWK> So you think your Black Crane Style is good?!!...... (echo, reverb)

Well …..then ...now…….
I will use my POISONOUS DEATH KICK MONKEY FIST!!! ( echo, reverb, synth SFX)
That Tong Na Ho and I created and made a secret manual for!!!!!

***Insert Cheesy Clint Eastwood western movie theme song here***

LMAO!!!!
~Jason

[Roc Doc]

Hmmmmmm...... the secret manual by nameless...
EXCELLENT!!!!!!!
AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... (echo,reverb,sfx)
.......quickly finishes the remainder of the jasmine pearls and slams the small clay cup onto the old wooden table and heads out to amazon.com.....
~somewhere in the distance a black crane cries~

[David Jamieson]

Actuallly, I don't mean to sound all sour or anything, but hwat the heck!

That site I mentioned, shaolin.com is loaded with erroneous and egrigious materials. Some of it is complete and utter nonsense. I think it is a source of disinformation about Shaolin more than anything else.

More arguments ahve been started because of the incorrect or outright wrong information being spread through that site.

One day, the net will be governed in its publications the same way newspapers are. hopefully that day will come soon and we can be rid of all the shyte we have to sift through in our attempts to find a single pearl of wisdom.

[emre]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
The only place I ever heard of black crane was at shaolin.com.

is there a connection?

That is a very good question!

Here's an interesting snippet from the FAQ at Shaolin.com:

9. Where did you get all this information?

All the information on this web site comes directly or indirectly from refugee Shaolin priests who fled China and emigrated to America before the temples were destroyed in the 1920's.

Hmmm.

The Shaolintemple.org website also refers people to Shaolin.com for further information, a website that sells gongfu online, and teaches exactly the same list of styles that this book claims to be about! Learn Shaolin at the comfort of your home, all you need is internet access, lol!

And this is the horse stance they teach!

[tattoed monk]

There is very little serious talk in these forums. Is there anyone out there who is really interested in real Shaolin kungfu or any chinese kungfu ? Or do you all just want to sit there on your asses and poke fun at something that you never have a chance to acheive?...... What is that you ask?..... to be a Shaolin or a real master of kung fu!

[MasterKiller]

Personally, I'm just wondering what your tat-toe looks like. Must be a heck of a bunyan.

[Budajoe]

Well, this is quite an interesting tread. But I want to go back to the issue if this book or its authors are "valid" or bogus. Not that I claim to know one way or the other, but hopefully I can find out or at least present another opinion on the subject.

So, I just got this book in the mail, and started to reading it. Only about 25 pages in so I can't really comment.

For guys like me, who in my case, know very little about Shaolin, their history, their pratices, origins, and religions, I don't really know what's "real" and what's not real. People like me would be the kind of buyer this book would be targeting, assuming of course, this book is bogus.

My background in martial arts in really only in Wing Chun. But, as many of you here, I always found "Shaolin" to be quite intriguing, from, dare I say it, the media and what have you. Flying monks, super powers, great white beards...you know, the good old school stuff! So I've watched a few too many kung fu flicks, but hey, haven't we all?

So, I will give it a complete read and will be sure to post an honest review. Take it for what's it worth, and remember, I'm no authority on this subject matter. I haven't read much else on Shaolin; a newbie shall you say. These will just be my personal opinions and observations.

But this whole thing about the authors not coming out and revealing themselves...I don't know about that. I'm kind leaning with what someone else hinted at earlier, if you go and release a book, and people question the validity of it, wouldn't you want to stand behind it?

If most of your life was spent devoted to these practices, and the perservation of them, and you felt compelled enough to release such a piece, wouldn't you want to defend that above all else. Not as a matter of pride or to "prove" anything, but rather as simply standing behind your product, or for that matter, yourself.

Taking this kind of attitude is fine, but it's this kind of attitude that makes people question things and react in a negative manner. And while it was somewhere mentioned that it you don't like it, then don't read it or buy it or believe it, but then that's what people will start doing. Ok, but then what's been accomplished? The exact opposite of what this type of book is trying to do, to perserve or pass on the history or secrets of Shaolin, or what have you.

I think "just a guy" mentioned earlier that the choice is yours, or ours, in this case. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy the book or not, and it's also your choice whether or not you should read it. Nobody is twisitng your arm here. While true,
I just gotta say that when you release a book like this on the subject matter of Shaolin, and you conceal who you are, people will be skeptical and for good reason. The person that mentioned the UFO analogy has a point. No proof, or at least not revealing who you are, will only, at least in my eyes, diminish you in the "real" world of historical texts, martial arts books, or things of this matter.

I believe, as a consumer, that if you pay good money for something, and you have something critical or postive to say about it, with good reason and explanation of course, you should definately voice your opinion and thoughts. Why? So that others, like myself can look at the big picture or at least have other opinions to compare to. If I keep hearing this book is crap, continously, from multiple people, I must suspect they actually have good reason for their opinions.
And, if I must say, the general tone of this whole discussion is lenaing toward the negative, or bogussness of this peice.

But then again, when we watch those old kung fu movies, we know they're bogus, it's entertainment, for fun. For the imagination. So if it turns out this book is just that; so be it, consider it another form of entertaiment, or fiction.
But if that's the case, I just wish they presented it as such in the first place, and not as a serious undertaking of the matter. Misleading people intentionally will eventually come back to you. Karma is a *****! I any case, I'll post my review shortly after I finsih it, which may take a while. In the meanwhile, I hope that what I've said is of no offense to anyone posting here and are simply my views on this matter. To finally conclude my tedious ramble, I leave with a couple of quotes:

1. A man stays wise as long as he searches for wisdom; as soon as he thinks he has found it, he becomes a fool.

2. Wisdom is found only in truth

3. If you are already there, you probably have not left.

And lastly...

4. The wise will spot the moment when the opponent, unable to convince, attempts to confuse.

Peace to all!!!!

Budajoe

[Brad]

No named source basically makes any kind of historical claims worthless as to what was practiced at the temple, etc. so I think anything concerning the history or historical claims can be ignored.

many styles have absorbed other forms to enhance their style and to understand how to combat them

That still doesn't answer the question. Those aren't exactly the most diverse group of styles they could've chosen from. Why not longfist, dog boxing, shui jiao, and taiji? Any combination of styles can be inserted into that and make just as much sense. Also, why would they need to defend against these styles specifically? Some have never been particularly common or even practiced in the same area of China (or developed at the same time).

There is very little serious talk in these forums. Is there anyone out there who is really interested in real Shaolin kungfu or any chinese kungfu ? Or do you all just want to sit there on your asses and poke fun at something that you never have a chance to acheive?...... What is that you ask?..... to be a Shaolin or a real master of kung fu!

There's actually quite a bit of serious talk on these boards (among the joking)... you don't seem to be too interested in serious discusion though. Half @ssed answers, ignoring serious points, and insulting people... If you're not going to put any real effort into arguing your point, then don't expect people to take you seriously. And if the author doesn't care enough about his writting to put his name on the book, he really doesn't deserve to be defended by his followers. Signing your name to something you wrote isn't about making yourself famous, it's about backing up what you say.

[emre]

Further research reveals that our mysterious Shaolin Monk is in fact a computer scientist that lives in Seattle and works for Boeing.

lol!

Our bookworm... cough... Shaolin Monk, is behind both Order of Shaolin Chan and Shaolin.com, the latter of which is a website that teaches you authentic Shaolin gongfu on the internet.

[wushu chik]

No no...this is by FAR my fave question....

2. Is this the same as the "kung fu" TV series?

Both of the styles seen on the original Warner Brothers series (1971-1977), black crane or Chin Na (David Chow as technical advisor) in the earlier shows and praying mantis (Kam Yuen as technical advisor) in the later ones, are Shaolin kung fu styles. The philosophical content of this series was mostly accurate (in our estimation, the temple flashbacks were arguably the best part of the series). The more recent "Kung Fu: The Legend Continues" (1992--) uses a random assortment of styles, many, we suspect, devised just for a particular episode...

And people teased ME about Capo Fu Do??

First off Sifu Kam- the narator in the movie says he's doing PM, it's actually Shaolin 4.

Second- WTF Black Crane = Chin Na?? I'm utterly confuseled by this....

And Third- KARATE GI'S-------need I say more??

And it STILL doesn't say who the hell teaches (not that I found) just like shaolin.org doesn't say who put out the book or anything- just got the response to my email from "T".

~Wen~

[Fen]

Setting:
***OSC and FWK face off with OSC in a Black Crane pose (like Daniel-San from The Karate Kid). FWK just stands there trying to suppress his laugher while holding a black Gaiwan full of Dragon Pearl Tea (-the tea compliments of Tao of Tea , Portland Oregon.)
*Rain beats upon the ground and the tables surrounding them in the courtyard at the headquarters of “The Order of Shaolin Ch'an” (hmmm…can we say very CULT sounding??? Hmmmmmmm)***

FWK> “And now, as you have dishonored the name of Shaolin and all of us that believe in it, I will now destroy you and all that you stand for.”

***FWK places the Gaiwan upon the table nearest him.

***OSC takes a step back and tries to define his Black Crane pose.

OSC> “NO- I will defeat you with my BLACK CRANE techniques. You will no longer question me and I will have DEFEATED YOU…..Muahahahahahahahahaha” (sfx, reverb echo)

***FWK moves with lightening speed before another drop of water can hit the ground. He lands and pulls of the Monkey slaps the peach technique on OSC. A high pitched screech comes from OSC while he falls to the ground.

OSC> EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

FWK> “SO, you think your kung fu is good?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.” (synth fx)

OSC> “I WILL DESTROY YOU…….”

***With rage in his eyes, he stands back up onto his feet and begins to run for FWK while flapping his arms like he’s trying to lift off the ground. We here that this is a highly efficient Black Crane technique used all over the world. (Flash back to Jim Carrey in Batman & Robin at the asylum for the next scene…….)

OSC> “I am the BLACK CRANE MAN………I……AM…..THE…..BLACK……CRANE……MAN”

***FWK- In one fatal move, he applies the Shaolin Death Kick as he watches his opponent fall helplessly to the ground. He steps back into the “Taming the Tiger” pose. He then stands up, grabs his Gaiwan with his Dragon Pearl tea (compliments of Tao of Tea , Portland Oregon) and walks to the door. He stops, looks over his shoulder and laughs.

FWK> “MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.” (reverb echo, synth fx)

***Somewhere in the distance Tong Na Ho hears a black crane cry.

[emre]

I fear our friends might be more qualified to write books on the mating habits of cranes than the fighting arts modeled after them.

[Just a Guy]

Heart-warming amusements.

Black Crane is a legitimate style with very few folks still practicing. David Chow is a master of Black Crane. Call him up and tell him his style is crap. Much of the ch'in na in White Crane was adopted from the older Black Crane style. Is it so hard to believe that there may be martial styles in the world which you haven't heard of? There're plenty I've never heard of.

The Order of Shaolin Ch'an is in no way affiliated with shaolin.com. Shaolin.com is an informational website run by a student of a master who *is* a member of the Order of Shaolin Ch'an. This student runs that website as his own activity, and yes, there are inaccuracies and problems with some of the information presented. There is also a variety of useful and accurate information on that website.

If people aren't interested in this new book, that isn't a problem. Don't buy it. Ignore it.

Our organization does not make a fetish out of secrecy. But realize that this whole Confucian business of comparing lineages is a pai/gar activity. It has never been a Shaolin tradition to do anything to "make a name" for oneself or discuss who one's teachers are with anyone besides other Shaolin. We have stretched beyond our custom in putting the names of some deceased masters of our organization on the amazon.com description page for The Shaolin Grandmasters' Text (and some details about them in the book). If people lack the resources to verify who these men were, and so wish to substitute derision for curiosity or (at worst) disinterest, that's unfortunate.

It's astonishing that anonymity should upset some people so much. I can only assume those who are upset are interested, but also wary, and for some reason have decided that snide put-downs will make for a fun pastime. That's fine. Wait for reviews. We have posted a few comments by Sifu Paul Eng (who studied T'ai Chi Mantis with Chiu Chuk Kai, Tiger with Wong Moon Toy, and Seven Stars Mantis with Kam Yuen) on www.shaolintemple.org. There will be more reviews, some being published in the future which I have already received advance notice of.

[Fen]

Reviews: from http://www.shaolintemple.org./publication.htm#reviews

"The book is excellent...Finally, after all of these years there is a book that every martial artist should read to get the true meaning of gung fu."

Sifu Paul Eng (www.taimantiskungfu.com)

Well I have an e-mail in to Sifu Eng to see if this is true? Also Be a where that Sifu Eng is my kung fu uncle. He is my Sifus Sihing..

~Jason