Who's the Master?

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
I have a master degree in electronics, listening to some of the people on this forum almost makes me feel that all of that hard work for that piece of paper is nothing, but a piece of paper. God has bless me, with the good life because of my hard work and that piece of paper.

The piece of paper is just a representation of your level of expertise in your specific field. The hard work must be added. Also, in University, they don't necessarily teach you about some basic life skills. I know a lot of Engineers, and some of them cannot handle their money well, others cannot relate to people very well, some are in bad physical shape, and others are struggling with depression. "Higher Education" is not all encompassing. I once heard that we should work harder on ourselves than we do on our jobs. Keep in mind that wherever you go, you take yourself with you.

I don't beleive that we ever reach a point where we should stop trying to learn more skills. We need to be more rounded in our pursuits. Like your music for example, a creative outlet that helps us balance our lives.

You say that God has blessed you, and I sincerely believe you are right. Just keep in mind that God helps those who help themselves. You have obviously applied yourself with hard work. The knowledge and skills you have did not fall from the sky like mana from heaven.

Peace,

[AmanuJRY]

My thing with degrees (the paper ones) is, did that individual study/work hard and absorb the material to earn the degree, or did they just cheat and 'get by' like so many do?

In my profession (Electrician) you have to have an education (book learning) AND field experience to get the 'title' of Journeyman and you have to pass an exam (kinda like a bar exam for a lawyer). To get the title of 'Master Electrician' you have to have more field experience as a Journeyman and take another, harder exam.

I wish so many other 'professionals' had to endure that kind of process (I'm printing out my Comp-Sci degree as I type this).

[Matrix]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
My thing with degrees (the paper ones) is, did that individual study/work hard and absorb the material to earn the degree, or did they just cheat and 'get by' like so many do?

Justin,
Sorry bother, but I had to disagree with your post here. It has a "holier than thou" air to it. I does not sound like you at all.

To insinuate that degrees can be printed off like so much newspaper is over the top. Yes, I get some spam about once a week asking me if I'd like to buy a Phd. There will always be those who want to cheat the system, but in time they will be found out. Let's not tar everyone with a degree (btw, I don't have one) with the same brush. We don't need to take it down to the lowest common denominator.

The point is degree, or no degree, we all have a lot to learn that goes beyond the mere academic world.

Peace,

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

It is the same thing. It may not hit you on the head. But it will hit the pocket just as hard. The United State court system proved that many years ago, example the K.K.K. You get nothing from physical contact or violent but pain. I would love to be hit on the head rather than being hungry or near homeless away from my family, and having that piece of paper and title Master in my trade, helps gives me a better change from keeping that from happening. Some people fight every day, in some forum of way just to work and to keep their jobs, physically or not. But with that piece of paper and hard work I get the proper respect, because of the higher leaning. Remember some master never have too hit or fight in real life, but you cannot take away their skills or knowledges from them. If you don’t do the homework you can’t do the class work if you don’t do the class work it will be hard too work in every day life. School and studying is work, math, history, or even wing chun. Just as I said about working and studying, isn’t that helping yourself? Sure it is, and living right God will bless you for that.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com

[Ernie]

in a non combative element one uses a non physical way [ paper ] to show a level of skill , but you still need to preform the task

in a combative situation [ unless of course your just a man made of paper and only care for taking money from people]

you must step up , no one cares what your pedigree or dna or lineage or what ever

if that is why the seek you then they are just a silly

skill can be proven in an instant

guess what you don't even need to know how to read


there are many PAPER masters running around these days

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Slow down, no need to get angry, well over 50% of my students do not pay for classes and Nelson is one of them. And I give classes at many rec centers here in Detroit, free of charge, and that’s hundreds of children. You are way a head of your self I’m only speaking of respect for higher knowledge. Some understand and some don’t, that’s all. I must have hit nerve, unless of course you are a drop out and don’t care about education. Then it is understandable. No need to fight, slow down. and far as being a paper fighter. you can come test that any time.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
Just as I said about working and studying, isn’t that helping yourself? Sure it is, and living right God will bless you for that.

Yes, it is. I was saying just that when I said "You have obviously applied yourself with hard work." Sorry if my words were less than clear on that point.

[Ernie]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
Slow down, no need to get angry, well over 50% of my students do not pay for classes and Nelson is one of them. And I give classes at many rec centers here in Detroit, free of charge, and that’s hundreds of children. You are way a head of your self I’m only speaking of respect for higher knowledge. Some understand and some don’t, that’s all. I must have hit nerve, unless of course you are a drop out and don’t care about education. Then it is understandable. No need to fight, slow down.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com

Look Player ,
you definitly don't know me
i don't get angry
just don't believe in ' fake B,S, in TMA '
too much out there , to much [ yes sifu what ever you say sifu crap ] not enough let me see what you got , lets see you pull it off under pressure

it's awesome that you teach for free , i have those i give back to as well , just like many taught me the same way .you must always put fresh water back int that which quenched your thirst

this is how you give respect not with titles and logos and belts and stripes

human to human


as for the money thing you made the money reference not me i just responded to it

so perhaps it was not my nerve that was struck


if you need to believe in paper tiltes in MA then this is your choice
i persoanaly have no respect for them

but i do respect any person i meet with or with out [ titles ]

to each his own

or is it each on must teach one

as for testing each other no worries anytime your in cali look me up numbers on my site

if i go back east i'll pop in i'm always down for a good work out

[Matrix]

Gentlemen, Gentlemen....

We all see the world through the filters of our own life experiences, and that shades how we view things. So, two people can draw different conclusions from looking at the same thing.

Ali Hamad Rahim is a man who has achieved significantly through the classic academic path, and as such has a high amount of respect for Degrees, etc. I would also be willing to bet that he can spot a phoney from a mile away.

Ernie is a man who has achieved significantly through the school of hard knocks. No paper, but significant practical experience. Again, pretenders need not apply.

Sorry if I am making any incorrect assumptions here. I do not pretend to know enough about either of you.

To me they are two sides of the same coin. Both have value. You say "Heads", he says "Tails"..... So what. In the end it is the knowledge and skill itself that is of value, regardless of which path was taken to achieve it.

Peace,

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

That’s good too hear Ernie. I have always respect you and your post on this forum, that last one threw me for a loop, I will be going to Hawaii in Dec. 10 my student is defending his title at the 808 Fight Factory in Hawaii. I would love too have a workout with one of Lam students, for he is one of the best. That will be fun. Thanks a lot. P.s try not too call me player, Ali is just fine, take care.

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com

[Ernie]

gotcha Ali
you just bring the gully out in me

i'll be in hawaii in oct, to bad would have been fun smacking each other around on the beach

and it wasn't you i was directing my views on it was the whole brainwash title thing that drives me nuts

that's what happens when they take me off my meds ha ha ha


by the way the triangle clips weren't bad but man when you screamed and rolled with the pole
that was just funny
i was busting up
please tell me you we just playing around

[Ernie]

matrix

you should know me by now if i was really bugged by some one i wouldn't post it on a forum i'm still down for the house call

air fare is cheap and i have tons of vacation ha ha

as for academic achievement don't let my lack of [ spell check ] fool you i have 2 degrees under my belt non martial art of course
one is in the field of electronics

it just bores me ha ha ha

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Try this Ernie; tell someone too put their hands up, as far as getting ready for contact without making any movement on your behalf, yell as loud as possible, but don’t let them know what you are going to do. And watch what happens. Some will freeze like they just sh*ted on themselves. It works well on the street.

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com

[t_niehoff]

University degrees, professional licensing, trade certification, etc, are different than "certifications" or titles in martial arts. The former are all performance-based with regulated, widely adopted standards to ensure a minimum level of performance. In TCMAs, anyone can have a title or a certificate, anyone can confer a title or a certificate; these things are not preformance-based and there is no standard. Of course, many people are ignorant to the distinction -- the general public and the "recreational martial artists" -- and so when it comes to paying for lessons, they feel better (they are getting a bargain for their buck) if their MA teacher has a title and a certificate. The ignorant are easily duped.

[sihing]

t_neihoff,
I agree with most of your post. I believe things are changing in TCMA with regards to testing people for their respective skills. We have strict testing criteria in my kwoon, and those that eventually, if they choose to, receive instructor’s certificates are more than capable of teaching other's WC. Problem here is some associations make this a $$$ making scheme and create testing programs that are exaggerated and expensive.

I was lucky when I started WC, in that I had found a true master on my first attempt, not all are as lucky as I, and I would recommend that when one wants to start studying a MA that they treat it like buying a car, investigate and ask many questions


James