Who's the Master?

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

If the mind cannot perform well under any pressure, you will not perform well over all, remember wing chun has very little physical attributes, outside of positioning, structure and timing, to me it is all mental in the Woo Fai Ching system. My Sifu is 5-foot 1in. in height. 110lb. If it was all physical and not mental (knowledge), I could easily drop him with one hit to the head. But in stead, he beats me like I stole something from him. How can he do that? And at that time he was 73 years of age. Physical I’m 6ft.5in 275lb and much stronger than he is. It is because of the higher knowledge and under standing that he has in the art of wing chun. Therefore it is mental which is knowledge. It don’t make a different if it come from someone speaking or from a book, it is still knowledge so therefore I will respect his certification and title as ‘Master” in the name of higher education or knowledge. I teach children of low income family, some just can’t afford my services but still have pride in the fact that they are developing their knowledge. And I would never take that away from a child.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com

[sihing]

Ali,
I agree that WC is a skill attribute based MA, timing, positioning, etc... As for physical attributes we do need some also, but when the average person comes in to start learning WC I believe they already have enough strength and speed to make the art work for them, all they need is the coordination. First people have to learn how to control their own movements (forms, chi-sao) to work in a set environment for themselves, then with practice one has to later learn the signs the opponent gives us to read them like a book. Once that is learned then self defense becomes allot easier.

As for why you cannot defeat or challenge your Master, even though you are much much larger is probably more a psychological thing, like the image we have of our Fathers, they are superhuman. Firstly you would never want to challenge him anyways, but if your master can achieve the level of skill that he has then it is possible for you too. Therefore if and when that happens, just because of your overwhelming size advantage you would in fact be able to beat him. Skill can take you only so far. If the skill is equal between two people then the one that is faster or stronger gains the advantage. Hopefully then we never fight other WC people, lol.


James

[Ernie]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
Try this Ernie; tell someone too put their hands up, as far as getting ready for contact without making any movement on your behalf, yell as loud as possible, but don’t let them know what you are going to do. And watch what happens. Some will freeze like they just sh*ted on themselves. It works well on the street.

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com

not with the people i roll with , if you yell at them it's a good way of getting your jaw broken

[t_niehoff]

sihing wrote:

I believe things are changing in TCMA with regards to testing people for their respective skills. We have strict testing criteria in my kwoon, and those that eventually, if they choose to, receive instructor’s certificates are more than capable of teaching other's WC.

**What is "strict testing criteria"? Just more nonsense. It's easy to determine the level of someone's skill.

Problem here is some associations make this a $$$ making scheme and create testing programs that are exaggerated and expensive.

**That's a small part of it but the major problem is that folks that can't really make their WCK work are teaching folks and handing out "certifications". I can claim to be a "master electrician" and hand out certs too but that doesn't mean I know how to install a fusebox or that my students will. Performance tells.

I was lucky when I started WC, in that I had found a true master on my first attempt,

**Sure. Isn't that nice.

[sihing]

Then t_neihoff how do you prepose to advance a student in a MA school without testing them. For the instructor level in our school everything is random(except the forms of course), so I would assume this would duplicate a street environment. Maybe you think it's bad to have a commercial MA school? Maybe we should all just give it away for free, to any Tom, D!ck or Harry that walks into the school, lol.

And yes I was lucky to meet my Sifu. Once you meet a Master you will know.

James

[t_niehoff]

AHS wrote:

If the mind cannot perform well under any pressure, you will not perform well over all, remember wing chun has very little physical attributes, outside of positioning, structure and timing,

**IME, while the "mental" aspects can limit one's physical abilities (e.g., choking in a crisis), one's physical abilities are primary -- no matter how mentally ready you are, if you are not physically able to do something, it just won't fly.

**And I wonder what it is you consider "wing chun" to be -- forms, drills? For me, WCK is fighting using our method (like boxing is the act of boxing, wrestling is the act of wrestling, wing chun is the act of "wing chunning" -- fighting with WCK). I agree that WCK is not a strength-based MA, but has many necessary "physical attributes", including strength, conditioning, technique, speed, timing, sensitivity, etc.

to me it is all mental in the Woo Fai Ching system. My Sifu is 5-foot 1in. in height. 110lb. If it was all physical and not mental (knowledge), I could easily drop him with one hit to the head. But in stead, he beats me like I stole something from him. How can he do that? And at that time he was 73 years of age. Physical I’m 6ft.5in 275lb and much stronger than he is. It is because of the higher knowledge and under standing that he has in the art of wing chun.

**No, it is because you're not really fighting -- you're cooperating with him. He's able to pull stuff off because you let him, like what happens in most TCMAs. If you don't believe me, go full-out sometime trying to just run him over and pound him. Can he deal with you then? If he can, why doesn't he enter a UFC and get rich (how many people would flock to study with a 5"1" 110 master that can drop skilled big-guys)? If you beleive this stuff, you need to wake up.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Here we go again. No one said nothing about rolling, this got to L.R.C. OK LET’S RIDE THE SHORT BUS. I’m driven.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Ernie
as for academic achievement don't let my lack of [ spell check ] fool you i have 2 degrees under my belt non martial art of course
one is in the field of electronics

Ernie,
Nothing about you seems to surprise me too much anymore.

As for Electronics, I have a diploma as an Electrical Engineering Technologist. I believe the equivalent term in the U.S is associate engineer, but I don't do that stuff anymore. I think the reason Wing Chun is so popular with engineering types is that the principles and concepts are technically sound. Interesting stuff....

making a mental note to avoid "house calls" from Dr. Ernie.

[t_niehoff]

sihing wrote:

Then t_neihoff how do you prepose to advance a student in a MA school without testing them.

**Do they "test" in boxing gyms or muay thai gyms or in any gym that trains folks that really fight (instead of pretending to)? The test is everytime they fight. Everyone knows who is good. In most BJJ schools, the instructor just watches you roll (fight) over time, sees what you can do, and when you are ready will just walk over and hand you the next belt. No "testing" since the skill is determined by being able to use it (fighting). In schools that don't fight, they need some other way to grade -- hence "strict criteria."

For the instructor level in our school everything is random(except the forms of course), so I would assume this would duplicate a street environment. Maybe you think it's bad to have a commercial MA school? Maybe we should all just give it away for free, to any Tom, D!ck or Harry that walks into the school, lol.

**Can every Tom, D1ck, or Harry beat folks at your school? If not, you don't need to be concerned about them walking away with anything. But FWIW, TCMAs never have traditionally been concerned with "certificates." Yip Man didn't have one.

And yes I was lucky to meet my Sifu. Once you meet a Master you will know.

**Many people are easily impressed. Does "master" have an open-door policy -- willing to mix it up with anyone that comes in? Does "master" regulary fight with skilled fighters from other disciplines? Has "master" fought anyone of any notable skill? I guess we have different notions of what a master is.

[Ernie]

Originally posted by Matrix
Ernie,
Nothing about you seems to surprise me too much anymore.

making a mental note to avoid "house calls" from Dr. Ernie.

House calls to friends are good things

trust me it would take alot for me to do something that crazy but in being honest with my track record from the ''old days '' i know it's still in me

better to just be happy


as for the testing for belts and titles sorry james that's just corny

it's like when you go to get your drivers license , sure your prepared and you trained and you have the date set

so what does it prove ? you were ready on that particular day against people you know

you should be ready everyday and be ''tested'' every time you train in one way or another

and wing Chun vs. wing Chun or worse wing Chun simulating some other art is just well ............... weak

I know you’re a good guy and got made love and respect for your teacher and system , that’s cool

but I have lost count of how many tested black belt I have walked through and I’m not all that

belts hold up pants but don't hold up much more

[Ernie]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
Here we go again. No one said nothing about rolling, this got to L.R.C. OK LET’S RIDE THE SHORT BUS. I’m driven.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com

ALI

how many times have you seen some one pop'n off there mouth
yelling and woof'n then get cracked in the jaw with that open mouth

open mouth + right cross = broken jaw simple math

i know what your talking about when you just punk or shock some one they freeze

but that is normally a timid person or a person lacking commitment

if he is there to fight and has some seasoning and you yell at him while in range he will just bomb

i'm all down for the street tactics don't get me wrong

i'm the first one to fake a high line and set up a ball shot

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

I honestly tried to hurt him and got my nose and elbow fractured in front of my students. Spar with someone like Yip Ching, Ho Kam Ming or Eddie Chong, and you will see what I’m saying. Because they have age on their side, doesn’t mean anything. Come on guys don’t be fooled. how about lets all sit down and watch the Barnie show. Im taking a stop, it's time to park this bus.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

By me yelling didn’t slow down my attack and it didn’t weaken my defense, that technique (yelling) is called shocking your opponents structure, and that’s what I did in the pole entry. I bag up every thing I say; Just give a try, before you speak on it, that’s all I ask of you.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
Im taking a stop, it's time to park this bus.

Thank goodness..... I thought someone had cut the brake lines.
Peace,

[sihing]

Ernie & t_neihoff,
Well once again to each their own. I still do not understand what the issue you guys have with a structured grading approach. When I graded for instructor level I was not grading for a title or a sash, I did it to demonstrate to my Sifu the lessons learned and how well I have learned them. Most of the test wasn't about technique, but more about heart and spirit. Since then has my sash and stripes gone to my head? I do not think so, as I have stated many times on this forum I do not consider myself a supreme fighter and I've been at it for a long long time. But I am proud of these symbols because they represent something, something of achievement and skill. Why do sport competitions hand out trophies then? It seems like tradition is going by the way side on this forum.

Did Yip Man have a certificate? Nope, but since his death who has promoted him to the level he has achieved, his students right. All the information out there today is from his students, and is represented by how well his students can teach and perform the WC. Ultimately this is the true test of a "Master". Can he/she pass along the knowledge to the student/s and maintain a high level of quality. Some Instructors choose to watch the student over time and then give them some sort of sign that the student has progressed, some don't do this way (especially in the west), is it really that big of a deal? Everyone is free to think what they like, but please do not mock another's approach.

I agree that one should be tested with every movement that they do in class or else where, it's called spirit of the movement and allot of people are unaware of this aspect of training and continually try to evaluate themselves. Sooner or later one has to let it all go and just do it.

Quote: Ernie
"and wing Chun vs. wing Chun or worse wing Chun simulating some other art is just well ............... weak "

Comments like this are really not necessary since you have no idea of the participant’s skills, training, and history. Put it this way, many practitioners of many MA have witnessed high level tests in my school. Haven't had any of them question it yet. This is not to say we are the "One and Only’s", just a statement of fact.

As for my "Master's" policies on challenges, since I am not him I cannot answer. All I can say is they would have to get through me first. Has he fought anyone of worthy? I do not know either, but has Vunak fought anyone worthy, or Inosanto, or even Bruce Lee, who did he fight that was worthy. Although I am aware of situations he has had in his life, to which I will not mention on a forum like this, where he has had to use it quite a few times. Most of these stories were related to me by others, outside of the school, by friends of his that were there to witness it all. Again, I will Put it this way, we don't have many knocking on our doors at the kwoon and we are a well known, established MA school in the city. We are not looking for trouble but we won't back down from it either.

Now I have to go, it's time for class and I have to IRON my sash and stripes before I get there, LOL....

James