Mongols

[Hermes3X]

Other than Shuai Jiao, does anybody know of any styles of kung fu that were influenced or created by the Mongols, during the Yuan Dynasty (1280-1380 +/-), or by ethnic Han in response to the Mongol invasions ?

Hermes 3x back from the Hurricanes

[richard sloan]

would Fu Yu count as an Mongol influencer...

[Vajramusti]

The Mongols were practically upto the gates of Paris. In their march they affected/influenced martial arts all through their marches--- changing the grappling arts for the Uzbekhs, Afghans,
Persians, Indians and Turks. plus archery, horsemanship and swordsmanship. The countries had their own versions of each
but the Mongol influence changed many things including the refinement of hooking and throwing.

[red5angel]

The Mongols were practically upto the gates of Paris. In their march they affected/influenced martial arts all through their marches--- changing the grappling arts for the Uzbekhs, Afghans,

says who?

[MasterKiller]

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/genghis/khanmap.html

That's a good ways from Paris...

[Shaolinlueb]

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/2532/img19.gif they kept russia in the middla eages for a loooooong time.

[Vajramusti]

The Mongol history is complex- and parts of it as expected are debated by right handed and left handed scholars. The Mongol raids was not just one event and Genghiz is only one part of Mongol history. Mongols had many bands- sometimes they acted in unision and sometimes broke off into rival factions - conducting their own raids. They intermarried with locals creating mixed Tartars and even factions of Huns.... Attila etc headed towards france. Babur and other Monghuls turned back and went south to India- founded the Moghul dynasty. Intermarriage, settling down created variances in language and customs depending on locality.Many Mongol groups got Islamicized in the Middle east. Competitive wrestling, hand to hand on horseback, strong bows, light silk "armor" are all characteristics of Mongol war and training.
Oil massage prior to wrestling in pits were all part of their training.Timeline of Conquest . See Robert Smith (Gilbey etc) writings on wrestling to see the thesis of the long Islamic corridor of wrestling influenced by the Mongols.
Dont think in terms of modern armies- Mongols came in hordes a nd waves. "Little" Mongolia was once a great incubator.

Joy Chaudhuri
-----------------------------------------------------------
-Also see------------------(Source Encyclopedia Hpme-Net)
The Mongols attempted two unsuccessful invasions of Japan. The first invasion fleet was utterly destroyed by a typhoon (kamikaze). The Mongolian fleets survived the typhoon the second time but the landed troops, starved because their provisions had been lost in the typhoon, were annihilated by Japanese infantry and samurai.

Other Mongol defeats include their invasion of Java, and south East Asia (Modern day Vietnam). The tropical climate proved unstuitable to cavalry, and while Vietnam was made a vassal state, Java remained autonomous much to the fury of Kubilai.


1200, Northern China - Unknown number killed
1215, Yanjing China (today Beijing) - Unknown number killed
1221, Nishapur, Persia - ~1.7 million killed in assault
1221, Merv, Persia - ~1.3 million killed in assault
1221, Meru Chahjan, Persia - ~1.3 million killed in assault
1221, Rayy, Persia - ~1.6 million killed in assault
1226, Tangut Campaign - Gengis Khan launches war against the northern China people of Tangut.
1258, Baghdad - ~800,000 people. Results in destruction of Abbasid dynasty
1226-1266 (re-check dates) - ~18 million reported killed in conquest of northern Chinese territory. This number estimated by Kublai Khan himself.----------------

[Vajramusti]

--Part 2-Mongols------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A time-line of the Mongols
World News | Politics | History | Editor
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(Copyright © 1999 Piero Scaruffi)

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450BC: Turkic-speaking tribes migrate from Siberia to the steppes north of the Aral and Balkash lakes where they give rise to the Huns
250BC: China repels an invasion by the turkic-speaking Hsiung-nu
220BC: the Hsiung-nu defeat the Yuezhi, who are forced to move south towards Iran and India
209BC: first Hun (Hsiung-nu?) state
200BC: the Hsiung-nu conquer northern and western China
48AD: the Chinese drove the Hsiung-nu out of China
50AD: the Xianbei (mounted archers) invade north China
350: the Chinese repelled an invasion by the Ruruan (Juan-Juan), who in turn drove the Hsiung-nu west toward the Ural Mountains and the Caspian Sea
350: the turkic-speaking Huns move west towards Europe, settling in the plains between the Ural and the Carpathian mountains
450: the mongolian Ruruan (Juan-Juan) empire controlled territories from Manchuria to lake Balkas
451: Attila invades the Roman empire
552: the turkic-speaking khanate of Boumin ("Khan of the blue Turks") crushed the Mongols and extended its empire from Manchuria to the Aral sea (Western and Eastern Khanate)
580: Tardu unifies the Turks
601: Turks under the command of Tardu siege China's capital Xian
629: the Chinese Tang begin anti-Turk campaigns
651: the Tang annex the Western Khanate
686: the mongolian Kitan from Manchuria raid China
744: the Chinese Tang dismantle the Turk empire
744: the turkic-speaking Uigurs, thanks to their alliance with the Tang, conquer the Eastern Khanate and expand from Lake Balkash to Lake Baykal, with capital in Kara-Balgasun (first turkic alphabet)
745: the turkic-speaking Uigur empire is founded in Mongolia
846: the Kirghiz drive the Uighurs west to the Tarim Basin
925: the mongolian Kitan expand towards eastern Mongolia (driving away the kyrgiz), most of Manchuria (their homeland, where they ruled over the Jurchen), and most of northern China, and establish the Liao dynasty
1100: the turkic-speaking Seldjuks expand in Persia, Mesopotamia and Turkey
1115: the Jurchen (Manchu) overrun the Kitan and found the Jin dynasty
1130: the Kitan are driven southwest, defeat the Seljuk and establish the Karakitai state
1135: Mongols led by Kabul Khan raid northern China
1190: Temujin (Genghis Khan) Becomes king of the Mongols
1206: Temujin (Genghis Khan) unifies all mongol and tatar tribes
1210: Temujin (Genghis Khan) conquers the kingdom of Xi Xia
1215: Temujin (Genghis Khan) conquers the kingdom of the Jin/Jurchen
1216: Temujin (Genghis Khan) builds a new citadel, Karakorum
1218: the Mongols conquer the kingdom of Kara-Khitai (Kitan/Liao)
1219: Temujin (Genghis Khan) conquers the Khwarizm empire (Uzbekistan)
1220: the Mongols conquer Merv (Turkmenistan)
1221: the Mongols conquer Herat (Afghanistan)
1223: a first Mongol horde defeats a coalition of Russian princes on the Kalka river
1226: the Jurchen invade northern China and Korea
1226: Genghis Khan attacks the Soong state
1227: Genghis Khan dies and is succeeded by Ogodai, the empire is split among khanates (Batu's Blue Horde, Orda's White Horde, Chaghatay's khanate in Mughulistan) and Ogodai moves the capital to Karakorum
1231: the Mongols invade Korea
1237: the Mongols, led by Batu, invade Russia
1240: Batu's Mongols ("blue horde") take Kiev, capital of Russia
1241: Batu's "Blue Horde" invade Poland, Hungary and the Balkans
1241: Ogodai dies and the Mongols retreat from Europe
1241: Batu's younger brother Shayban raids Hungary and then splits, establishing the Shaybanid Horde
1246: the papal envoy Giovanni da Pian del Carpine visits the Mongol capital Karakorum
1251: Hulegu leads the Mongol invasion of Persia and establishes the Ilkhanate
1255: Hulegu, the Ilkhan, invades the Middle East and captures Bagdhad, which becomes the capital of the Ilkhanate
1257: Mongols led by Kublai conquer China all the way to Hanoi
1258: Mongols led by Hulegu conquer Mesopotamia and Syria
1260: Kublai is appointed Khan and declares Buddhism the state religion
1260: Mongols are defeated for the first time in Palestine (by Muslims, in the battle of Ain Jalut)
1263: Hulegu assumes the title of "Ilkhan" as ruler of Persia
1265: Hulegu dies
1267: Kublai Khan moves the Mongol capital to Dadu (Beijing) and founds the Yuan dynasty
1274: Kublai Khan fails to invade Japan
1277: the Mongols invade Burma
1282: the new Shaybanid khan Uzbek converts the Shaybanid horde to Islam and his horde becomes known as the Uzbeks
1284: the Uighur empire is absorbed into the Chagatai Khanate
1293: Kublai Khan fails to invade Java
1294: Kublai Khan dies and the empire fragments in khanates: Sarai in the west (descendants of Batu, the "golden horde"), Beijing in the east (the Yuan), Sultaniyeh in Persia (the Ilkhan Sultanate, descendants of Hulegu) and the Chaghatai Khanate in the center
1295: Ghazan, the Ilkhan, converts to Islam
1304: Oljeitu, the Ilkhan, proclaims himself a shiite
1304: Mongols under Ali Beg invade India but are repelled by the Delhi sultanate
1316: Oljeitu, the Ilkhan, builds a new capital, Sultaniyeh, and his own domed mausoleum
1327: Chagatay khan Tarmashirin converts to Islam
1328: the Mongols invade India but are repelled by the Delhi sultanate
1335: Abu Said dies and the Ilkhan khanate ends
1342: Shaybanid khan Uzbek dies
1350: the Shaybani horde (southeast of the Urals) renames itself Uzbek
1365: the turkic-speaking Timur overthrow the Chaghatai khanate and conquers Persia, establishing his capital in Samarkand
1368: the Ming dynasty is founded by a Chinese peasant and former Buddhist monk turned rebel, Chu Yuanchang, under whose leadership China regains independence from the Mongols
1378: union of White Horde and Blue Horde into the Golden Horde (Kipchak Khanate) under Toqtamish, with capital in Sarai Berke
1384: Timur captures Herat and Sultaniyeh (the Ilkhan)
1388: the Ming defeat the Yuan and destroy Karakorum
1391: Timur defeats the "golden horde" and reaches the Black Sea
1395: Timur sacks Sarai Berke, ending central control of the Golden Horde
1395: the Khazak horde seizes Khazakstan from the Chagatai and Golden hordes
1398: Timur invades India and sacks Delhi, causing demise of the Delhi Sultinate
1402: Timur captures Ottoman Turk Sultan Beyazid I
1405: Timur dies (buried in Samarkand) on his way to conquer China and his empire disintegrates
1407: Timur's son Shah Rukh re-conquers most of Timur's empire
1409: Shah Rukh moves the Timurid capital to Herat
1417: Shah Rukh is succeeded by his son Ulugh Beg
1420: Ulugh Beg begins to build the Registan in Samarkand
1430: part of the Golden Horde splits off to form the Khanate of the Crimea under Hajji Giray Khan
1440: the Uzbeks move south to Transoxiana under Abu al-Khayr
1447: Shah Rukh dies and his son Ulugh Beg succeeds him
1449: Ulugh Beg is murdered by his own son
1445: part of the Golden Horde splits off to form the Khanate of Kazan
1451: Abu Said rules the Timurids
1451: Muhammad Shaybani becomes the khan of the Uzbeks
1460: the Turcomans invade Persia and Mesopotamia
1466: Dayan Khan unifies the Mongolian tribes again in Mongolia
1466: part of the Golden Horde splits off to form the Khanate of Astrakhan
1469: Abu Said dies and the western Timurid empire (the Ilkhan) dissolves
1478: Husayn Bayqara rules the Timurids from Herat
1480: Ivan III liberates Russia from the Mongols
1497: Babur, a descendant of both Genghis Khan and Timur, becomes the ruler of Ferghana and founds the Mughal (Mogul) dynasty
1500: the Uzbeks cross the Syr Darya river and enter Transoxiana
1502: the Golden Horde is destroyed by the Crimean Khanate
1504: Babur conquers Kabul
1505: the Shaybanid Horde (Uzbeks) under Muhammad Shaybani expel the Timurids from Transoxiana and capture Samarkand
1506: the Uzbek Shaybanids capture Bukhara (Uzbekistan) and Herat (Afghanistan), bringing to an end the Timurid dynasty and forcing Babur to flee
1510: the Uzbek khan Muhammad Shaybani dies in battle against the Safavids at Merv
1514: under the eastern Chagataid Khan Sayid the capital moves from Ili to Kashgar
1522: Babur captures Kandahar
1526: Babur captures Delhi from Ibrahim, the sultan of Delhi, and founds the Mogul empire in India
1530: Babur dies and his son Humayun succeeds him
1538: Abdullah Shaybanid II expands the Shaybanid (Uzbek) empire and moves the capital to Bukhara
1540: Babur's son Humayun loses the empire to Afghan Leader Sher Shah and goes into exile in Persia
1543: Dayan dies and the Mongol empire disintegrates again
1552: Russian conquers the khanate of Kazan
1555: the Mogul king Humayun reconquers India
1556: Russian conquers the khanate of Astrakhan
1556: the Mogul king Humayun dies and his son Akbar becomes the ruler of India
1578: Altan Khan converts to Buddhism
1598: Abdullah Shaybanid II of the Uzbeks dies and the Astrakhanid dynasty inherits power in Transoxiana, retaining the in Bukhara
1619: the Shaybanid (Uzbek) khan Yalangtush Bahador begins construction of the Sher Dor madrasa in Samarkand's Registan
1646: the Uzbeks begin construction of the Tilla Kari madrasa in Samarkand's Registan
1740: the Astrakhanid dynasty collapses

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/genghis/khanmap.html

That's a good ways from Paris...

Your map shows 1227 the year that Genghis Khan died. It also says his descendants went further. Yikes!

[MasterKiller]

It says they went to Eastern Europe. They never got passed Poland. Check SL's map.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/2532/img19.gif

That's STILL hardly Paris.

[HanRen]

yep the mongols basically kicked the German-Austrilian allillance army's arses, according to the history books I've read the mongol army was marching to sack city of Veinne (about 100 miles or less away from it, I could be wrong either 100 miles away or actually looking at the city of Vienne, this is the furtherest expansion of Mongol in Europe), but they stopped the invasion further deeper into Western Europe was beacuse that the Khan dies. In Mongol tradition, selecting a new Khan is not like father passing to the son that simple, all the major generals, elders and leaders of tribs need to show your support to the one you support to be a Khan in the grand meeting at mongol homeland, if you failed to show up you lose your "vote" meaning you could lose your power back home and more.

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
It says they went to Eastern Europe. They never got passed Poland. Check SL's map.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/2532/img19.gif

That's STILL hardly Paris.

I was talking about your map which was posted before the other map. You didn't read it carefully, now did you?

[MasterKiller]

Sure I did. Eastern Europe is clearly indicated. I just didn't think it was that big of a deal.

I think you just have a boner for me because you want my Long Fist style.

[Archangel]

The Mongols reached the gates of Vienna in 1241-1242 (this was after the death of Ghengis). It was pure chance that Ogedi Khan died of alcohol poisoning and they had to turn back. If not for that event the Mongols would have annihilated Western Europe and most of us on this forum would be looking through the world with "asian eyes".

Just do a google search for - Mongols Vienna or check out this web page

http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h11mon2.htm

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Sure I did. Eastern Europe is clearly indicated. I just didn't think it was that big of a deal.

I think you just have a boner for me because you want my Long Fist style.

lol