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Thread: Mongols

  1. #16
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    A great deal of the eastern Eurpoean countries to this day have a great deal of mongol blood flowing in their veins.

    Same as a great deal of coastal mediterraneans have moorsih blood flowing in their veins.

    But the Khans never made it into western Europe, and certainly never beset Paris.

    Seems that all these great dynasties are only great as far as teh ego of the founder and anyone who takes his place...they alwasy collapse when the leader dies.

    That's what made the dynasty last was the will to go further in many cases. In those cases where their is no heir, Like in Alexander for instance, upon his death, his empire collapsed.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  2. #17
    Comments on Kung Lek's post:

    A great deal of the eastern Eurpoean countries to this day have a great deal of mongol blood flowing in their veins.
    ((Yes)



    But the Khans never made it into western Europe, and certainly never beset Paris.

    ((Complex story- depends on sources and definitions--- the Khans
    (genghiz etc) didnt.. the mongols broke off under regional commanders- intermarried and show up as tartars and some nands of huns. Attila and others went west. Mongol intermarriage modified the old mongol lines. Some mongols in the moghul dynasty in India, Aghansitan picked up Persian blood. Racial "purity" less important to Mongols than some other folks))

    Seems that all these great dynasties are only great as far as teh ego of the founder and anyone who takes his place...they alwasy collapse when the leader dies.

    ((Not so simple...key is in part who takes their place as you say--
    power struggles within marauding bands are complex things. Mongols didnt end with the great khans... lots of little khans around.In Pakistan khan is still a special status name))

    That's what made the dynasty last was the will to go further in many cases. In those cases where their is no heir, Like in Alexander for instance, upon his death, his empire collapsed.

    ((Not so simple... the collapse can take time- not exacyly presto. Ptolemy in Egypt, Seleuccus in NW India and part middle east
    held on to their segments and created mini dynasties.
    The devil in the details))

  3. #18
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    ttt 4 2016!

    May 14, 2016 Archaeology

    Mongolia: Archaeologists Unearth Tomb Of Genghis Khan


    Genghis1[1]

    Öndörkhaan| Construction workers employed in road building near the Onon River in the Khentii province of Mongolia, have discovered a mass grave containing the remains of many dozens of human corpses lying upon a large rudimentary stone structure. Forensic experts and archaeologists were called on the site, which was revealed to be a Mongolian royal tomb from the 13th century that the scientists believe to be Genghis Khan’s.

    The team of scientists affiliated with the University of Beijing, has concluded that the numerous skeletons buried on top of the structure were most likely the slaves who built it and who were then massacred to keep the secret of the location. The remains of twelve horses were also found on the site, certainly sacrificed to accompany the Great Khan in death.

    A total of 68 skeletons were found buried together, almost directly over the top of a rather crude stone structure.



    The content of the tomb was scattered and badly deteriorated, presumably due to the fact that the site was located beneath the river bed for hundreds of years, until the course of the Onon river changed in the 18th century. The remains of a tall male and sixteen female skeletons were identified among hundreds of gold and silver artefacts and thousands of coins. The women are presumed to have been wives and concubines of the leader, who were killed to accompany the warlord in the afterlife.

    The amount of treasure and the number of sacrificed animals and people, have immediately led the archaeologists to consider that the site was certainly the burial site of a really powerful Mongol warlord. After realizing an extensive set of tests and analysis, they were able to confirm that the body belonged to a man aged between 60 and 75, who died between 1215 and 1235 AD. Both the age, the date, the location and the opulence of the site seem to confirm that the tomb does indeed belong to Genghis Khan.


    The simple rock dome discovered by the archaeologists, was presumably buried beneath the Onon river for centuries.

    The incontestable historical importance of Genghis Khan makes this new discovery one of the most important in the history of archaeology. Born Temüjin (which means “of iron”), he was the founder and Great Khan (emperor) of the Mongol Empire, which became the largest contiguous empire in history after his demise. He is known for uniting the warring tribes of Mongolia and merging them into one before launching a series of military campaigns in China, Central Asia, the Middle East and even Eastern Europe. He conquered more than 31 million square kilometers of land during his lifetime.

    His legacy has taken many forms besides his conquest and can still be found today, making him one of the most influential men in the history of mankind. He connected the East and the West through the creation of the Silk Route, a trade route that would become and remain for centuries, the main network of trade and cultural transmission in Eurasia, opening long-distance, political and economic interactions between the civilizations.

    Genghis Khan also has an incredible number of descendants, as some genetic studies have shown that he could be the direct ancestor of 1 human out every 200 who are alive today. In Mongolia alone as many as 200,000 of the country’s 2 million people could be Genghis Khan descendants.
    I might as well add the Marco-Polo-Netflix-Original-Series thread here, while I'm at it.
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  4. #19
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  5. #20
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    The Mongols were formidable horsemen warriors of their day! Through rape and pillage, Mongol ascendancy shows up in 'odd places' showing that even though their deeds are forgotten, the phenotype image still remains. They destroyed Afghanistan and formed the character of Pushtunwali as it is today! Even Uzbeks and some Tajik are treated like dogs by the Pushtun because they are a reminded of the past when the Mongol hordes destroyed many of the local landmarks of the Hindu Kush. I was in Bamiyan before Taliban destroyed the Buddha statues inside the mountain formation and it tells of a Buddhist past that was overcome through forced conversion evidenced by the descendants who happened to have stayed over the centuries.

    They may not have reached Poland through conquest but I have met Polish girls who show Eurasian characteristics of a past era. Same with Ukraine where Tartars were once a recognizable minority but were driven out through Russian control in the Soviet era.

  6. #21
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    Aw bummer.

    Quote Originally Posted by B.Tunks View Post
    Good find, B.Tunks. I bow to your false web news fu skillz. Usually I double check articles for satire, but this didn't strike me as something satirical.
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  7. #22
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    Would you believe Kublai's Palace?

    Frankly, I don't know what to believe now. It's like the election.

    KUBLAI KHAAN’S IMPERIAL PALACE DISCOVERED UNDER THE FORBIDDEN CITY


    Kublai Khaan’s Imperial Palace Discovered Under the Forbidden City

    Posted By: Ginger PeralesPosted date: May 09, 2016
    The Palace Museum in Beijing, best known as the Forbidden City, recently confirmed the discovery of porcelain pieces and broken tiles dating back to the Yuan Dynasty established by Kublai Khaan in the thirteenth century, thus solving one of China’s greatest mysteries; the location of the Yuan Palace. As it turns out, it was right under the three that followed it – in the center of the royal residence.

    The relics have been lying underground, buried for more than 600 years, beneath the feet of museum experts. The museum told the South China Morning Post the relics had been unearthed last year, but testing to confirm their age has only just been completed.

    The sprawling complex known as the Forbidden City was the location of China’s imperial palace from 1420, during the Ming (1368-1644) and Qing Dynasties (1644-1911). Experts from the museum said in a statement that they had uncovered the foundation of the royal palace from the Yuan dynasty at an archeological dig site in the center of the Forbidden City. Archeologists had begun localized excavations at the site to learn more about its architecture and construction history.

    Kublai Khaan was the fifth Great Khan (Khagan) of the Mongol Empire from 1260 until his death in 1294. As a grandson of Genghis Khan, Kublai succeeded his older brother as Khagan, but to do it he had to defeat his younger brother in a civil war that lasted until 1264. This marked the start of the empire’s disunity, and although as Khagan he still had influence over the entire empire, Kublai’s real power was reduced to Mongolia and China. On the whole, the realm stretched from the Pacific Ocean to the Black Sea, and from Siberia to what is today Afghanistan – one fifth of the world’s populated land area.

    Kublai assumed the role of Emperor of China in 1271, establishing the Yuan dynasty which ruled over Mongolia, Korea and China, as well as several adjacent areas. By 1279, after Yuan forces had overcome the Southern Song dynasty, Kublai became the first non-native Emperor to defeat all of China.

    The excavation site in the center of the complex revealed a total of four historic foundation layers all together, starting with Qing at the top, late Ming next, followed by early Ming and then the Yuan at the bottom. A director with the Palace Museum, Li Ji, told the website Youth.cn that all of the buildings from the Yuan time period had been removed prior to the Forbidden City’s construction, making the discovery extremely rare.

    Other nearby discoveries include the remains of a garden palace built for the emperor’s mother, and a garbage pit for abandoned porcelain from the Qing dynasty. Li added that no large-scale construction or archaeological work will happen in the location of the relics, in order to minimize any impact to the surviving architecture.
    Gene Ching
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  8. #23
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    Genghis Kahn Burial Place

    Quote Originally Posted by B.Tunks View Post
    From what I saw on a TV documentary on the Discovery Channel, Genghis Kahn's burial place may be inside a man-built mound built on top of Mongolia's largest mountain. No one can say "for sure" though. From what I saw on the TV show there is local Mongolian lore about the mountain linking it to Genghis Kahn's burial spot. And the mountain is off-limits to outsiders and no one is allowed to dig there... although they can't say for sure it's a good bet that it could be the spot.

    It makes sense that their greatest leader would be buried at the highest point of their homeland. Even in Native cultures in the United States for instance, some of the important people (chiefs aka "sachems", "sagamores" etc.) are not too uncommonly given sky burials at or surrounding the high spot of the local topography of their respective domains. They are thereafter guardian spirits over-looking their homelands.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Good find, B.Tunks. I bow to your false web news fu skillz. Usually I double check articles for satire, but this didn't strike me as something satirical.
    I only checked because I was so excited about the news. Pretty cr@p satire if you ask me!

    BT

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mawali View Post
    The Mongols were formidable horsemen warriors of their day! Through rape and pillage, Mongol ascendancy shows up in 'odd places' showing that even though their deeds are forgotten, the phenotype image still remains. They destroyed Afghanistan and formed the character of Pushtunwali as it is today! Even Uzbeks and some Tajik are treated like dogs by the Pushtun because they are a reminded of the past when the Mongol hordes destroyed many of the local landmarks of the Hindu Kush. I was in Bamiyan before Taliban destroyed the Buddha statues inside the mountain formation and it tells of a Buddhist past that was overcome through forced conversion evidenced by the descendants who happened to have stayed over the centuries.

    They may not have reached Poland through conquest but I have met Polish girls who show Eurasian characteristics of a past era. Same with Ukraine where Tartars were once a recognizable minority but were driven out through Russian control in the Soviet era.
    It sounds that this posting is mixing Mongols with prior nomads who were successful in invading and dominating other territories, are we talking about the Huns or the xiong nu? Not only Poland but mainly Romania many individuals have Asian facial features if that's a hint to say they have Hun or Mongol blood? One way to know better is when a baby is born there is a mark in their upper leg or lower back as having Mongoloid ancestry, the same happens with Amerindians birth mark. Mongols are later in the history we know today.

    Mig

  11. #26
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    More on the palace

    ‘The greatest palace that ever was’: Chinese archaeologists find evidence of the fabled imperial home of Kublai Khan’s Yuan dynasty
    PUBLISHED : Thursday, 09 June, 2016, 11:01am
    UPDATED : Friday, 10 June, 2016, 2:56am
    Laura Zhou

    For centuries the imperial palace of Kublai Khan’s Yuan dynasty was shrouded in mystery.
    After the dynasty collapsed, there were no clues as to where it was and it lived on only in legend through writings such as those of 13th century Venetian merchant Marco Polo.
    If Polo is to be believed, the walls of “the greatest palace that ever was” were covered with gold and silver and the main hall was so large that it could easily seat 6,000 people for dinner.
    Chinese archaeologists solve mystery of Beijing’s Forbidden Palace

    “The palace was made of cane supported by 200 silk cords, which could be taken to pieces and transported easily when the emperor moved,” he wrote in his travel journal.
    It was a vision of grandeur but the palace disappeared, seemingly without trace.

    The Yuan dynasty lasted for a less than a century, spanning the years from 1279 to 1368, and it is widely believed that the capital of the empire was Beijing.
    But in the centuries since, one question has dogged historians and archaeologists in China: just where was the dynasty’s palace?

    Now experts at the Palace Museum in Beijing believe that they have some answers, clues they stumbled upon during upgrades to the heritage site’s underground power and fire-extinguishing systems.
    According to historical records, the Yuan palace in Beijing was abandoned by its last emperor, Toghon Temür, who was overthrown by rebel troops that established the Ming dynasty in the 14th century.
    Some experts believe the palace was razed by Ming soldiers who took over the city, while others insist the buildings were removed by Ming workers on the site of what was to become the Forbidden City.
    The foundations for the sprawling Forbidden City were laid in 1406 and construction continued for another 14 years. It was the imperial palace for the Ming rulers and then the Qing dynasty until 1912.

    The complex has been built up, layer by layer, but researchers sifting through the sands of archaeological time said last month that they had found evidence that at least part of the Yuan palace was beneath the site.
    The researchers from the museum’s Institute of Archaeology said the proof was a 3 metre thick rammed earth and rubble foundation buried beneath the layers of Ming and Qing dynasty construction.
    The Yuan foundation contains rubble dating to earlier dynasties. Photo: Simon Song
    Institute deputy director Wang Guangyao said the foundation unearthed in the central-west part of the palace was in the same style as one uncovered in Zhangjiakou, Hebei province, in the ruins of Zhongdu, one of the four capitals of the Yuan dynasty.
    Some of the rubble in the newly discovered Yuan foundation dated back even further to dynasties such as the Liao (907–1125) and the Jin (1115–1234), Wang said.
    Wang said a foundation of such size was rare in Yuan buildings and could have been used to support a palatial hall.
    More exploration of the dig at the Forbidden City

    At the very least, the find proved that the Yuan palace was built on the same site as the Ming palace, though it was still too early to say these two completely overlapped.
    At least we now know that the palace was not built somewhere else but hereWANG GUANGYAO, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE PALACE MUSEUM’S INSTITUTE OF ARCHAEOLOGY
    “At least we now know that the palace was not built somewhere else but here,” Wang said.
    “From a historical perspective, it gives us evidence that the architectural history runs uninterrupted from the Yuan, to the Ming and Qing dynasties.”
    The discovery has also revived debate about the Central Axis of Beijing – a 7.8km strip that runs from Yongding Gate to the Drum and Bell towers and included the Forbidden City, the Temple of Heaven and Zhongnanhai, the Communist Party leadership compound.
    Many Chinese believe the axis has been the city’s “sacred backbone” since the Ming dynasty but others argue that it goes back further to the mid-13th century.
    Wang said it was still too early to conclude whether the Yuan, Ming and Qing were built along the same axis.
    The excavation gives direction for future exploration, researchers say. Photo: Simon Song
    “As archaeologists, we can only define what we have found,” Wang said. “But it gives us a direction for future exploration.”
    Wang said it wasn’t easy to excavate in one of the country’s most important cultural sites and more work was still to be done.

    “Even if we think a certain site is important for an archaeological finding, we can’t just dig the ground up because it is not allowed,” Wang said.
    “All we can do is to wait and collect as much evidence as we can until sometime later, probably in a generation or two, work is done in those places and we can put all the finds together to see if they are all connected.”
    The new discovery would be open to the public soon, Wang said.


    There are more pix behind the link. The one at the bottom was the only one that was easy to cut&paste.
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