wsl chi sau vids

[YongChun]

Good post James. You try to explain in detail what you do and why and that's very informative. In that way people can think about it and debate it or tell of their experiences etc.

[SAAMAG]

Forgive me if this has been already brought up, as I didn't read through every post. But one thing that I noticed on one of the videos in the first link presented was how they countered round kicks.

It seems that he was using a few techniques, one a shin block, another what seemed to be a low bong sau, and another a pak sau! He even tried what seemed to be a gam sau to the thigh! Now to each their own and this may seem to work for him, but in my reality, you cannot block a good round kick with a pak, gam, or a bong sau. The shin block would be more appropriate and even an intercepting kick to the kicking leg...but the fella who tries to use a pak, bong, or any other kind of redirecting movement on the contact point of a round kick has some serious delusions to their effectiveness. I would not only break through someone's block trying that, but also their bones most likely. It also seemed like his footwork was not rooted at all and there was waaaaay to much bouncing around. How can one have a foundation if you aren't rooted?!


Did any of you gentlemen seem to notive that vid?

[sihing]

Thx Ray,
I know at times I may sound opinionated or prejudice towards what I do, but I do not see anything wrong with one saying that they think what they are doing is of the highest standard. I have no problem with anyone on this forum stating that they think the WC they practice is the best, as long as they state the reason's why and can logically explain that. I know that it is very hard to do in the written way without pictures or video, but as long as they try then I respect that. We will all judge in one way or another everything we read, hear or see to some extent, as compared to what we do, we are human right.

James

[YongChun]

Hi James,

I have no problem either with you saying what you do is the best as long as you give some technical reasons and then everyone can at least think about it.

Regarding the flat Tan sau people, they all elevate the Tan sau when they do the wooden dummy because the upper arms are up high so they have to. Just in sticking hands they have different ideas then when a punch is thrown from a distance.

Ray

[Frank Exchange]

>> Regarding the flat Tan sau people, they all elevate the Tan sau when they do the wooden dummy because the upper arms are up high so they have to. <<

I beg to differ. We tend to have the dummy set a bit lower so that its arms are at the "correct" height.

[YongChun]

Originally posted by Frank Exchange
>> Regarding the flat Tan sau people, they all elevate the Tan sau when they do the wooden dummy because the upper arms are up high so they have to. <<

I beg to differ. We tend to have the dummy set a bit lower so that its arms are at the "correct" height.

If we did that, and we use the level Tan sau, then the two top arms would be about the level of our belly button or lower part of the solar plexus and then the middle arm would be at the level of our knee so that we wouldn't be able to press it and the leg would be below floor level. So probably we aren't getting each other's meaning I think. Our level is the same as in 99% of the books and tapes that show the dummy in use.

Our dummy is set up the same was as Wong Shun Leung shows in his video. The same hieght and spacing realtive to his size.

Our arms are set so that you can do the Bong sau for example at the same height you do it in Chi sau. If my arms are fullyt stretched out and parallel to the floor, then the top arm is below our outstretched arms. We have the dummy a bit lower than the way Yip Man shows it in the wooden dummy book. The dummy is low enough so that we are forced to lower the stance when doing the dummy.

"Correct height" for us is similar to what is published in most books including Yip Chun's book showing his father. For us it is the height such that all of our movements are comfortable when we are in a "proper" stance. Our middle arm is about the level of a flat Tan sau and the upper arm is about the level of the wrist of a Bong sau. Some people use the middle of the arm Bong sau.

With our dummy spacing, the high Tan sau is at about a 45 degree angle from the level Tan sau. The higher one intercepts something high. The level Tan sau is just used for Chi sau as in Wong Shun Leung's videos.

Ray

[sihing]

Dummy height also has to be adjusted to practicioner height. We have 4 dummy's in the school and all of them are slightly different in height, with one on the short side and one on the tall side. I'm 6'1" so the short one is not good for me to use on a long term basis as it makes me hunch over to use, but the tall one in good as it simulates fighting taller opponents and is good for my height range. If I were to use the shorter one it still wouldn't effect my tan sao height as the tan is used to protect from solar plexus to top of head, therefore the dummy arm would be sliding closer to my elbow, instead of mid forearm/wrist.

James

[Frank Exchange]

>> If we did that, and we use the level Tan sau, then the two top arms would be about the level of our belly button or lower part of the solar plexus and then the middle arm would be at the level of our knee so that we wouldn't be able to press it and the leg would be below floor level. So probably we aren't getting each other's meaning I think. Our level is the same as in 99% of the books and tapes that show the dummy in use. <<

Then you are doing the tan differently. Which is not particularly surprising, as we all interpret things slightly differently. Perhaps you have the elbow a bit closer to the body than we do. Certainly our dummy arms are nowhere near our belly buttons.

I was just responding to the statement that we all must elevate the tan sau on the dummy, because we dont.

[YongChun]

Well a picture is worth a thousand words. So here are photos of how we use the Tan sau:

The elevated Tan sau in two people dummy:
http://www.wingchun.org/viewpt/one/2/vp1-2n.html
The Flat Tan sau in Chi sau:
http://www.wingchun.org/viewpt/one/4/vp1-4j2.html
Elevated Tan sau on the dummy:
http://www.springtimesong.com/wcphotos.htm
Another example of an elevated Tan sau:
http://www.cheungswingchun.com/Articles/Article.2.html
and finally Grandmaster Yip Man with the elevated Tan sau:
http://www.wle.com/products/b269.html
Yip Man and Bruce Lee flat Tan sau (maybe 20 degree angle):
http://www.brucelee.com/Bruce15.html

Ray

[Nick Forrer]

Hi Ray

Thanks for sharing your pictures.

Frank Exchange/James & I are class mates so I think I can speak for us both here.

In the picture of your daughter(?) on the dummy- the dummy seems the same height as ours. However if she were to raise her elbow up then her Tan sau could/would be flatter then it is.

For us the tips of the dummy arms represent our opponents elbows, so in training as in combat we want to control our opponents elbow by matching the height of them with ours.

Hope that helps.

[YongChun]

Thanks, it's getting clearer all the time. Ray

[Nick Forrer]

Hi All

I have updated the first page with some more clips

[sihing]

Just saw a copy of the Science of Infighting, by Wong Shun Leung, most of it was pretty standard stuff, but I was impressed with Wong's power and speed, he definetly knew his stuff and I also saw somethings similar to what the TWC people do also like some of the circle stepping and stances, although they don't twist the feet and shift, TWC picks up them up and turns more. Very interesting.

James