Moral Dilemma: Performance Enhancing Supplements . . .

[Vash]

To be perfectly honest, the only drug which has ever made me take a second look is steroids. I mean, dayum, look how amazing Arnold's physique was. Look at our professional athletes, how well they do. Just . . . wow.

But, I've never touched them. Never will. Now, I'm not morally opposed to the use of the various steroids, hormonal manipulation compounds, or anything of that sort. Yes, I belive there should be regulation of these substances, but no more so than on prescription drugs. Which, ironically, brings me to the topic at hand . . .

Vioxx . Wait, it's not a performance enhancer, at least, in the general sense of the word. It would be more apt to describe it as a performance inabler. It's like your crack dealer, except the crack is powercleans and your dealer is a generic pink pill. Anyway, I digress.

I'm gonna buy me some non-prescription, generic Vioxx. That stuff is the only thing I've taken which has alleviated the discomfort in my knees. I'm going to take it in conjuction with my physical therapy (which I'm still doing for completely stupid reasons. My knees got better, so I lifted weights on them again [lunges, squats, step ups, et al]. Anyhoo, fugged them back to square one). By the middle of next year, I predict I'll be done with physical therapy (most of the exercises will remain in my regimens, though, as I don't plan on squating or lunging anytime soon )and will hopefully be off of Vioxx.

Thing of it is, I'm not going to be able to afford the stuff until I get a job (again, within two weeks, God willing).

So, to finally reach the end of this lengthy blab: I'm going to get some Vioxx, I'm gonna fix myself, I'm gonna be happier.

Gona update my workout log tomorrow, too. Get to say how I DL'd 240, 250, and 260 for a set of four each Thursday, and how it felt dang good.

[IronFist]

It's pretty much like this. You're not going to make it to the elite levels of any sport without drugs. Why? Because the people are are already elite, who have the best genetics and the best training are using drugs to give them the edge over everyone else. So not only do you have to use drugs if you want to be elite, you also have to use them just to keep up with all the other elite athletes. This is all assuming you have the genetics to do so in the first place.

A couple people on the board like to disagree with me and say that pro athletes don't use drugs (steroids). You guys can think whatever you want. Drug tests can be beaten with masking agents. The proof is there. If you know where to look you can find people who have the inside info anyway. Many ex players will admit to using steroids in the past.

And finally, because someone always likes to say it, steroids don't cause brain cancer. I know that one guy died of a brain tumor, and I know that he admitted his steroid use caused it. However, after his death, his own doctor admitted that his steroid use didn't cause his brain tumor (of course the press didn't advertise this as much as they did him saying it did), and also, the biggest reason that steroids don't cause brain cancer is... everyone pull out your biology books... there are no steroid receptors in the brain. Oh, thanks for playing. Now go back to believing what the media tells you is fact and leave the real knowledge to us who actually do the research.

I'm not condoning steroid use. However, if you do your research you will likely find which ones will work for your goals, which ones are the safest to use, how to minimize any side effects, how long to cycle them for, whether to taper them or not, what to stack together if anything, whether pills or injectables are better for your goals, what side effects each type of steroid has, how long to stay on each one, etc. Doing your research doesn't mean talking to the big guy at the gym. It means reading everything you can find, and then reading more, and then reading it all again. It means studying chemistry so you know what you're putting in your body, what it does, how it does it and why it does it.

And finally, if you decide to do a cycle, make sure you have everything on hand before you begin. You don't want your cycle to be ending and then you realize that you don't have any Clomid yet.

And the closer you are to your genetic potential before you start using steroids, the better. Roids are not for noobs! Not only will you get the best results if you're close to your potential before you start, but it should take you a while to do all the necessary research. So don't be in a hurry. And no, you're not at your genetic potential yet.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by IronFist
It's pretty much like this. You're not going to make it to the elite levels of any sport without drugs.

But if you do opt for drugs with elite comp in mind, how far are you going to get when you get there before being UT'ed and disqualified?? And if you chop down before hand, how 's that going to effect your performance??

You know what, I'm one of these natural hippy types, so i'm just going to stay out of it. If we're talking steriods, I wouldn't take you seriously though, not as a person anyway.

[Vash]

Ironfist has taken the correct and put it on a cycle.

I don't know why I equated steroid use with utilizing Vioxx for joint health. Maybe I was too sleepy.

Anyway, good post IF.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
But if you do opt for drugs with elite comp in mind, how far are you going to get when you get there before being UT'ed and disqualified??

Originally posted by me
Drug tests can be beaten with masking agents.

The best athletes with connections to the best "sports pharmacologists" (chemists) not only have access to the best drugs, but also to the best masking agents.

You know what, I'm one of these natural hippy types, so i'm just going to stay out of it. If we're talking steriods, I wouldn't take you seriously though, not as a person anyway.

Huh? I was talking steroids. What did you think I was talking about?

[mickey]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


DON"T DO STEROIDS, PERIOD.

Arnold Schwarzenegger, possibly a future presidential sphincter, has had a few operations with regard to his heart. That motorcycle accident was bogus: a you going to allow someone move you around and put you in a car when you have cracked ribs? Arnold is racing against time and he knows it. You may think he is still strong but watch him walk. My left nut moves faster than he does.

Question: If vioxx habit forming?

mickey

[Vash]

Originally posted by mickey
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


DON"T DO STEROIDS, PERIOD.

. . . Why not? Show me ONE legitimate medical study which concludes EDUCATED, MONITORED, and INTELLIGENT use of steroidal compounds which causes health problems.

As an aside, I don't think anyone should get steroids unless they're over the age of 30, and have been training intelligently for at least 10 years prior to hittin' 30.

I don't think anyone here is advocating use of steroids. Me, I'd rather it's use be concentrated in the medical field, assisting muscle growth for cancer and AIDS patients.

Question: If vioxx habit forming?

mickey

No. Vioxx (Rofecoxib) is a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug known as a COX-2 inhibitor.

[IronFist]

Vash, steroids can do a lot of bad stuff to you. They raise blood pressure, mess with yoru hormones, etc. I'm just saying that they're not as inherrently evil as the media would have you believe. For the vast vast majority of users, their lives would be a lot healthier if they chose not to use steroids. Nearly every anabolic androgenic steroid user experiences side effects. I'm just trying to say that they won't automatically turn you into a raging, small nutted, bald-headed hairy-backed monster.

[mickey]

Hi Vash,

Was there ever such a study conducted? That would take years. Most studies of medications are usually 5-10 years at most. To look at side effects, we would probably need a 25 to 50 year study: time consuming and expensive.

If you want to see some of the effects of steroid use amongst female bodybuilders, check out Muscle Elegance magazine. If you can muster the strength to look at the women from the neck up, look at their jawline and chin. There are other physical attributes that can be explored to make my case; but, if that is what is happening to these athletes chin and jawline as a result of steroid use, what is really going on at the DNA level and how long will it take for some of these other changes to surface?

mickey

[Vash]

IF:

Indeed, they can. That's why I avoid them, and that's why tell clients they don't need them (the few times I've been asked). I think my post was quite bit off in that I didn't note any of the not-so-good effects of steroid use.

mickey:

I don't know if any study on that scale has yet been done. And to be honest, I was a bit overboard in my near-endorsement of steroid use. Again, I oppose it's use by anyone who's under 30, has less than 10 years of training, and has yet to max out his genetic potential.

I'd love to see careful study for steroidal compounds for medicinal purposes.

[Vash]

Has anyone had any experience with Vioxx or it's generic equivalent? I've used it before for my knees, but my insurance eventually stopped paying for it, and a bottle end up costing me $97.15 for 25 tablets. Frikkin horrible.

The only side effects (other than painless knee flexion and extension) was a bad stomach cramp if I took it on an empty stomach.

[mickey]

Hey Vash,

Have you tried MSM:methylsulfonylmethane?

This is great for joints and connective tissues. I recommend it. MSM is one of those essential building blocks in human bio-maintenance.

mickey

[Vash]

Originally posted by mickey
Hey Vash,

Have you tried MSM:methylsulfonylmethane?

This is great for joints and connective tissues. I recommend it. MSM is one of those essential building blocks in human bio-maintenance.

mickey

Yes. It works great. I use it in conjunction with my glucosamine and chondroiton. Helps my shoulders but not my knees. The Vioxx takes the inflammation caused by the incorrect movement of my patella all the way down.

Just wish the stuff wasn't so dang expensive.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by IronFist
The best athletes with connections to the best "sports pharmacologists" (chemists) not only have access to the best drugs, but also to the best masking agents.



Huh? I was talking steroids. What did you think I was talking about?

I only said that because in the poll there was refernce to shakes and other supplements.

I am aware their are masking agents, but you know roids have effect on aggressive disposition etc and consequentially mental stabilty and control. A drug's a drug as far as I'm concerned and if you're achieving it artificially, you may as well just go out and buy yourself some implants. It is not fruits of honest labour and I just can't pay it's value.

[FngSaiYuk]

Vash, ever considered rubbing your knees with dit da jow/iron conditioning medicine? A good jow is anti inflammatory and since it's topical is easy to target specific areas.

Anyways, I'm have no idea how bad your injuries are, but when I had banged my right knee up when I was younger, I could barely get out of my bed due to all the movement and pressure on the knee. I didn't have insurance at the time, so I just used heated dit da jow and massaged it often. I healed really quickly (~3weeks) and I felt that my knee was stronger after.

I also gave it to my father for his arthritis on his hands and to help after he had shoulder surgery (after the skin had scarred over) as it helped him out better than the prescribed medicine AND it was much cheaper (albeit smellier).

Anyways, something to consider trying out if it's available to you at a lower cost.