what if me have missed core training key of SLT?

[yellowpikachu]

Hundred of years have passed since the Fine Jade Association Got destroy, in 1855's era.
Decades and decades have passed since 1930-40 era when Wing Chun propagate out of China.


There are alots of way of how to practice SLT emerge for decades due to various valid reason.


what if me have missed core training key of SLT
according to the nature of the art? what if our practice actually moving away from what the set is mean to design for?


Thus, no one attain a higher level of capability and surpassed those ancestors earlier?



What do you think if the direction of question above is a valid one?


------------------------------------------------------------

Huston, We got a problem ------- Apollo 13

[kungfu cowboy]

I reckon at least (at most?) a couple took the ball and ran with it.

[AmanuJRY]

What if we have developed beyond the original core training key?

What if our practice has evolved beyond what the set was designed for?

What if we have not only attained the knowledge and skill of the ancestors, but have surpassed it and gained a higher level than they had?

[Ernie]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
what if we have missed core training key of SLT
according to the nature of the art? what if our practice actually moving away from what the set is mean to design for?


Thus, no one attain a higher level of capability and surpassed those ancestors earlier?



What do you think if the direction of question above is a valid one?


------------------------------------------------------------

Huston, We got a problem ------- Apollo 13

vaild question

hen-what if we have missed core training key of SLT
according to the nature of the art? what if our practice actually moving away from what the set is mean to design for?


[[ first there would have to be valid physical proof that there is another level of skill and it apply's to a combat situation. not just some silly demo like breaking bricks or killing tied up bulls ]]]

hen--Thus, no one attain a higher level of capability and surpassed those ancestors earlier?

[[ again there would have to be proof beyond what one or two people can do or did , if it is to fit with in a universal matrix that works with most that train it .

if it's just special individuals that may have a hightend ability then there is no need to waste time chasing fairy tales . a effective fighting system can not depend on what if but must be '' can do ''
and must work across the board


so first find real proof
then research the training method of this skill
then train people and see that it works for many vs few
and then all your what if's will be answered


until then what if i could jump a tall building in a single bound

[anerlich]

The notion that people in the past had some hidden knowledge that made them better or smarter than us, or that things allegedly lost could never be rediscovered, is not supported by the history of any other human endeavour, nor by the history and philosophy of science.

To assume that we can never match or exceed our predecessors is to limit and disrespect ourselves, and them.

What do you think if the direction of question above is a valid one?

IMO this is not a valid "direction of question".

[Vajramusti]

FWIW-IMHO---

with the proliferation of wing chun- it is a very diverse world -but I do not think that good things from the core have disappeared
and the evolution of wing chun seems to have been somewhat dialectical at times(even in the Leung Jan, Chan Wah So, Ip man transmissions) and I think that the core will remain here and there with variations and reconstructions with varying qualities..

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by Ernie
vaild question

hen-what if we have missed core training key of SLT
according to the nature of the art? what if our practice actually moving away from what the set is mean to design for?


[[ first there would have to be valid physical proof that there is another level of skill and it apply's to a combat situation. not just some silly demo like breaking bricks or killing tied up bulls ]]]

What does SLT contribute to fighting? can keeping doing the "magic" SLT makes one a great fighter or even just break a brick not to mention kill a bulls?

if not what is the purpose? why are you doing it?

[PaulH]

--------------------------------------------
"As explained earlier, the fundamental contents of martial arts training are the human vitality, energy, and spirit, which could also be summed up as the mind in which matter, capacity, and spirit are united into one.

The reader may ask how the mind can be this, that, and the other thing. In reality, what modern medical science speaks of in terms of advanced neurological activity also refers to "mind" in which biology, psychology, and capacity are combined into one. This includes material biology and intellectual and emotional activity, as well as the process of growth and change (although it does not include the total human body and mind), which also belong theoretically and pragmatically to different fields of study...each field of study came to have its own "rules." Even if every single specialized work emphatically points out its subordinate relationship to a totality, nevertheless the habit and conceptual bias of self-contained systems make it extremely difficult for people to find the comprehensive order of the totalily and how specialized fields of study ultimately relate to the whole.

Refinement of mind addresses the various contradictions and obstructions temporally produced within the body and mind, which are inseparable. It involves a training of the totality, using mind to refine the body, using the body to refine the body, using the body to refine the mind, using unminding to refine the mind, and so on.

Herein, both body and mind (or the three facets of mind, which are vitality, energy, and spirit) should be considered necessary parties to unification, the triplex system of capacity, power, and effect that is to be "turned from three into one." The "mind" which is the final product should be considered a single effective system in which the three have already been united into one. This is called the mind that has "returned to reality and gone back to simplicity, mind and energy united, mind and spirit united, mind and consciousness united, spirit and consciousness united," and so on. This alone qualifies as the aim of advanced training in martial arts." - Mind Over Matter Higher Martial Arts by Shi Ming with Siao Weijia.
----------------------------------
Perhaps the missing core training key in SLT is the refinement of mind or consciousness mentioned above. Chu Chong Tin seems to advocate strongly of this view.

[black and blue]

From many of your posts H, you seem to suggest that today's Wing Chun is missing something vital.... what do 'you' feel it is missing?

[Miles Teg]

Good topic but you are going off the subject with your last questions to Ernie. You should make that a seperate thread.



Back to the subject at hand
I am of the belief that this could quite possibly be the golden era for martial arts. Never has it been easier to transfer information. Never has it been easier to travel to different places. Never has it been easier to communicate with people from foreign lands. Never has the human race enjoyed such a high standard of living. Never has there been so much choice of martial art schools.

I dont see any reason why there should be less skill in todays practitioners than past practitioners. If this phenomum were happening it would be the teachers fault for not transfering their knowedge properly.

[Vajramusti]

Comments on Miles Teg's post in brackets:

Back to the subject at hand

((Good idea))

I am of the belief that this could quite possibly be the golden era for martial arts.

((I am not so sure. As symbolized in Kurosawa's Seven Samurai-
the era of the gun is here- and for some instruments you dont even have to aim too well .And that culture is spreading pretty fast.))

Never has it been easier to transfer information.

((Transferring information and understanding it and absobing it and using it properly are different things.))

Never has it been easier to travel to different places.

(( Mostly-For elements of the middle class -except for refugees who are driven here and there. Your POV may be shaped by your OZ to Japan and return journey-possibly a fairly elitist phenomenon))

Never has it been easier to communicate with people from foreign lands.
((To steal Hendrik's repeated quote- Houston- we have a problem- Sharon and Arafat are not communicating too well and the fall out shapes lives in many parts of the world))

Never has the human race enjoyed such a high standard of living.

((The first world including contemporary Japan-yes. Think of large clusters of people in fairly densely populated places- example- Bangladesh. Class also plays a role))

Never has there been so much choice of martial art schools.

((In some places yes- others no. In many places serious effective
martial arts systems are being replaced by tkd, jkd/mma. modern wushu. Some old time arts flourished economically with various sponsorships and the nature of more feudal socio economic systems. Sometimes a choice beteen hot dog and hamburger stands.))

I dont see any reason why there should be less skill in todays practitioners than past practitioners.

(( I differ somewhat. The pace and style of modern living and related economics results in aiming for proftable customer satisfaction rather than crafstmanship. True in manufacture and methinks true in many other areas.))

If this phenomum were happening it would be the teachers fault for not transfering their knowedge properly

((Student teacher relationships have changed too. In some areas-
in proftable spectator sports/athletics teaching productivity is better. In other areas of craftsmanship-you engage in gimmicks or starve))

[Katsu Jin Ken]

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Hundred of years have passed since the Fine Jade Association Got destroy, in 1855's era.
Decades and decades have passed since 1930-40 era when Wing Chun propagate out of China.


There are alots of way of how to practice SLT emerge for decades due to various valid reason.


what if me have missed core training key of SLT
according to the nature of the art? what if our practice actually moving away from what the set is mean to design for?


Thus, no one attain a higher level of capability and surpassed those ancestors earlier?



What do you think if the direction of question above is a valid one?


------------------------------------------------------------

Huston, We got a problem ------- Apollo 13

my question is what caused you to, well, question the way SLT is practiced today? Do you think there is some "secret" training technique we are missing?

p.s.

you spelled Houston wrong.

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by Katsu Jin Ken
1, my question is what caused you to, well, question the way SLT is practiced today? Do you think there is some "secret" training technique we are missing?

p.s.

2, you spelled Houston wrong.

1, Question is a way to look broader and deeper on things instead of taking things for granted and blindly.
It is a way lead to improvement too.

2, thanks for point it out.

[black and blue]

So what 'might' be missing from today's SNT, Hendrik?

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by black and blue
So what 'might' be missing from today's SNT?

That is what some of us are searching for, isnt it?

might be a proper direction, might be a wrong one?