size and strengh do not matter

[Meat Shake]

"that we all need a half finished phd to make half near entertaining comments."

Followed by...

"you don't make sense,"

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
and as we know, aikins diets are void of glycogen... and still ( even though created by doctor ( :- IE , other qualified health student) don't permit good health and advocate that all your protein should be dried egg whites ( of the only sources w/out sugar) and gylcogen is neglegant........




what do you say to that??

Really, the Atkins & other low carb diets are for people with fat stores who want to reduce their fat stores efficiently. They are NOT for martial artists in heavy training - or really, ANY athlete in heavy training.

Low carb diets limit the primary source of long term energy which your body would use up. Once your body uses up it's immediate sugar supply, it uses carbs as its energy source... if carbs have been exhausted it then uses up the stored energy - fat. Finally, if there's little fat available, it'll start using available aminos and begin converting protein into aminos, ultimately your muscles (if you're starving yourself).

Anyways, in a high physical activity forum (such as...hmmm... martial arts forums?), these low carb diets really should only be brought up when someone is asking about losing large amounts of fat stores quickly so that they can begin their physical training, if the large amounts of fat stores are a hindrance - some people have a very difficult time when their frame supports excess amounts of fat storage ... their muscles and joints just can't handle the stress of heavy activity.

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by Icewater
Pay attention because here is where Atkins/MA and some good weight control vs. exercise stuff comes in....

...

Yah, what he said...

::grin::

[Ray Pina]

Blooming Lotus, one of your posts talked about how you "survived" or are still hear, and another talked about kicking butt, which raised this question:

How big are you (weight)? How big is the biggest person you have beaten (weight)? Want to know how far you can stretch it.

Otherwise, these claims that smaller people are faster and more accurate sounds like talk from a small person trying to convince themself that everything will be alright when that time comes. Has it come? What was the outcome?

This is not to say that if a guy is bigger he will win, otherwise we don't need to train, just step on a scale and hand the guy your money. But you almost make it sound like being 50lbs lighter is an advantage.

[Toby]

Originally posted by Icewater
Holy mother of posts BL. Give the guy a break.

Don't worry Icewater. I can handle Eyebrows as well as anyone can. I've got a long history of correcting her crap. She, OTOH, has a long history of insanity and incorrect information.

Thanks for the info about other methods of ATP synthesis. I only mentioned the short term one because it served my argument. I couldn't be bothered trying to describe all of them.

[Toby]

Originally posted by EvolutionFist
How big are you (weight)? How big is the biggest person you have beaten (weight)?

E-fist, she is around 90lb. She has beaten a 450lb Samoan boxer.















Excuse me while I roflmao .

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Boys,

No hard and fast rules on this one. Its true the larger you are the more inertia you have to overcome. However, potentially you can carry more muscle mass to move efficiently. Small does not always mean you can move fast, depends on things like power to weight ratio although you have the benefit of less initia.

What it does suggest is a difference in strategy one would apply if you're a smaller person taking on someone larger in a street fight.

If it is in a ring contest, then most likely the bigger guy will win. Say a boxing match which restricts the contest to a frontal confrontation disadvantages the smaller guy even if he has better mobility.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Toby
"When muscle contracts, ATP provides energy by being broken down to ADP in the following reaction with the help of an enzyme called an ATPase:

ATP -> ADP + Pi + energy

Within a muscle, there is about 6 seconds worth of ATP stored which can be used for immediate energy. For activity to continue past 6 seconds, ATP must be generated through various other reactions. The first of these is through the creatine phosphate system.

"... stored in the muscle is a substance called creatine phosphate (CP). This provides a phosphate molecule to ADP to regenerate ATP so that muscular activity can continue. CP donates its high energy phosphate molecule to ADP to regenerate ATP via an enzyme called creatine kinase as shown:

ADP + CP -> ATP + creatine

There is enough stored CP in a normal muscle to provide energy for approximately the first 20 seconds of muscular activity at which time intramuscular CP is depleted. The CP system operates in the absence of oxygen (it is anaerobic) and can provide energy very quickly during exercise. ... The ATP-CP system is used to fuel maximal intensity activities of a duration of 20 seconds or less such as low rep weight training or sprinting.

"For activity to continue past 20 seconds, the body must rely on other fuel sources to generate ATP. One of these is the breakdown of blood glucose or glycogen ..., which is called glycolysis." (McDonald, L. 1998. The Ketogenic Diet)

Maybe your books neglect to discuss strength training. That's no surprise. It took you a long time to understand the whole PTP training protocol when you first came here. The above quotation directly relates to my training methods. Energy comes not from glycogen, but from ATP and creatine. Hence my comment that a ketogenic diet (typically high in meat and hence creatine phosphate) can provide "energy" by synthesizing ATP in the absence of glycogen. Glycogen only becomes important in activity lasting longer than 20s.

Any other comments Eyebrows?

0wn3d

[Meat Shake]

BL is even better than Bush at ignoring facts.

[Serpent]

All the recent posts by Fong Sai Yuk, Toby and even Icewater this time are excellent. This is all scientific fact, verifiable by published evidence from research studies. Well done guys - great work.

blooming lotus seems to have gone very quiet....

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Toby
Sorry Eyebrows, I was going by memory. ATP == adenosine triphosphate. ADP == adenosine diphosphate. CP == creatine phosphate. I thought most "health professionals" like you would know what ATP is anyway .

I know what atp is, and I know how phosphates contibute to anabolism of proteined enzemes. Fact is though, like yourself on this matter, not everyone else has the same information, but if we walk through step by step, maybe we can come back to "group interest" and learnings.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Toby
"When muscle contracts, ATP provides energy by being broken down to ADP in the following reaction with the help of an enzyme called an ATPase:

ATP -> ADP + Pi + energy



Any other comments Eyebrows?

as a matter of fact yes! and your "theories on the respective cartb / protein to muscle bonding/repair and growth processes??

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Icewater
Holy mother of posts BL. Give the guy a break. He's got some good points in there.

And a quick clarification about ATP, because all fat people should know this...

ATP is the source of energy for muscle contraction and I admit that I am not exactly sure how that energy is spent, but I'm sure of how it is created.

Different muscle groups use different energy sources to create ATP. The way you use these muscles depend on how ATP is generated.

When you are heavy lifting ATP is created quickly by burning CP (Creatine Phosphate) but is used up quickly. This is why you can't maintain max power for more than a few seconds.

Once the CP is used up you start burning pure glucose which is stored in your liver and muscles. You burn this up in a short period of time (a few seconds to a couple of minutes).

Pay attention because here is where Atkins/MA and some good weight control vs. exercise stuff comes in....

For most other exercises ATP is generated by (in this order) by carbohydrates, metabolized fat, and amino acids. This is why your body stores fat so that it can have reserves after your supply of carbohydrate ATP (glycogen) is gone. The body burns glycogen first because it is more efficient than fat or amino acids and stores enough in your system for a couple of hours of aerobic activity. Once depleted, your body uses stored fat and amino for energy. This is why Atkins is so effective. By eliminating your carb intake you effectively eliminate your most efficient process for making ATP until your body supply of glycogen is diminished. This causes your body to burn fat instead. While this is a good weight loss program, it is not the greatest for a martial artist who needs the more efficient glycogen ATP process to endure more aerobic exercise.

that's not exactly true either because depending on the gi of your carbs, your body's using what's in it's most brokendown/ bioavailable high content source/state first and unfortunately for your statement, if your protein is broken down, and you've delpteted the bulk of your simple carbs, you're using your protein sorce then comming back for the rest when it's ready.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by FngSaiYuk
Really, the Atkins & other low carb diets are for people with fat stores who want to reduce their fat stores efficiently. They are NOT for martial artists in heavy training - or really, ANY athlete in heavy training.

.

even that statement has been refuted with bs uneducated arguments, but I'm dexterous, so let's continue ........

[Serpent]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
that's not exactly true either because depending on the gi of your carbs, your body's using what's in it's most brokendown/ bioavailable high content source/state first and unfortunately for your statement, if your protein is broken down, and you've delpteted the bulk of your simple carbs, you're using your protein sorce then comming back for the rest when it's ready.

Bull****.