View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #17941
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    Personally, I still use the Pa Qua and Tai Chi and realy do not care if someone is upset about how I spell it. The pronounciation is sufficient. In my early SD training from back min 1970, I was told by Bill Leonard that the way these forms were pronounced and spelled would change from time to time and that it was based on phonetics. I was also told that there were more than one dialect being used by SKT and HKT, so I was not to worry so much about the spelling as long as I absorbed the material. I still have that mindset today. If some one really cares, have at it because I have other issues to deal with. There is no way I am going to let such a trivial detail change my way of thinking. Just my two cents.

  2. #17942
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Cup View Post
    Does anybody know if the notes/names/etc. used by GMS are Mandarin, Cantonese, or something else? I thought I read once there was some kind of Southern dialect he used but can't remember.

    As for other languages, I totally understand what themeecer is talking about. But more from a "I want to be able to understand you" perspective. Try pronouncing "paprika" with the true Hungarian pronunciation and people will look at you with blank stares.
    The Chinese characters are identical for all Chinese dialects. I believe he mainly uses Hokkienese, that's where we get Hao instead of He(hur) for crane, but I'm not 100% about that. I say that because I read somewhere that the hokkien pronounciation of crane was "hao". Where we say "chien" instead of "quan" for the word fist must also be the hokkien or whatever similar southern dialect his family uses. tai peng sin kune appears to be cantonese, since it isn't "tai peng sin chien" or "tai peng shen quan". Other forms and style names are in mandarin, (hua quan, wu xing quan, hsing i ch'uan, t'ai chi ch'uan).
    "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udun! Go back to the shadow, you cannot pass!"

  3. #17943
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leto View Post
    The Chinese characters are identical for all Chinese dialects. I believe he mainly uses Hokkienese, that's where we get Hao instead of He(hur) for crane, but I'm not 100% about that. I say that because I read somewhere that the hokkien pronounciation of crane was "hao". Where we say "chien" instead of "quan" for the word fist must also be the hokkien or whatever similar southern dialect his family uses. tai peng sin kune appears to be cantonese, since it isn't "tai peng sin chien" or "tai peng shen quan". Other forms and style names are in mandarin, (hua quan, wu xing quan, hsing i ch'uan, t'ai chi ch'uan).
    Funny you say that, because the old handwritten notes of Sin The listing the black belt material romanizes these form names as "hua chien", "tai chi chien", "pa kua chang", "shing ie chien" etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  4. #17944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    Funny you say that, because the old handwritten notes of Sin The listing the black belt material romanizes these form names as "hua chien", "tai chi chien", "pa kua chang", "shing ie chien" etc.
    That's interesting...sounds like GMS kept trying to romanize the sounds and maybe kept updating the romanization from time to time.

  5. #17945
    Quote Originally Posted by OldandUsed View Post
    Personally, I still use the Pa Qua and Tai Chi and realy do not care if someone is upset about how I spell it. The pronounciation is sufficient.
    Exactly. Someone needs to tell Gene about this debate. He has 227 items listed on martialartsmart.com with the word tai chi attached to it. Oh the sacrilege!
    themeecer actually shares a lot of the passion that Bruce Lee had about adopting techniques into your own way of 'expressing yourself.'
    -shaolinarab
    (Nicest thing ever said about me on these boards.)

  6. #17946
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    Some folks get their skirts all in a twist for a perceived/imagained transgression on a wide variety of subjects. Be it history, lineage, language, attire, or whatever. I am more of the sort that tries to get along and mind my own business. If I see someone do or say something I do not agree with, I just make a mental note and move on. It is not my problem. If they ask my opinion, I may give it if I do not see any harm from it. If they wish to impose their position on me, I may politely decline or just ignore them. If they put their hands on me, well, then I would deal with that as appropriate. Other than that, it is all just a silly discussion, isn't it? Take the name of my hometown, Louisville. I have heard that as Louavul, Looieeville, Louis-ville and some I cannot reproduce. As long as I understand what you mean, it is all good to me.

  7. #17947
    Quote Originally Posted by OldandUsed View Post
    Take the name of my hometown, Louisville. I have heard that as Louavul, Looieeville, Louis-ville and some I cannot reproduce. As long as I understand what you mean, it is all good to me.
    Some of those pronunciations are fighting words around here. Heck, we don't even like Louisville .. this is Wildcat country here.

    Everyone knows that Louisville has two syllables in it ... possibly two and a half.
    themeecer actually shares a lot of the passion that Bruce Lee had about adopting techniques into your own way of 'expressing yourself.'
    -shaolinarab
    (Nicest thing ever said about me on these boards.)

  8. #17948
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    True, true. BTW, there are more UK alumni and UK fans in Jefferson County than UL. Jus sayin.

  9. #17949
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Cup View Post
    That's interesting...sounds like GMS kept trying to romanize the sounds and maybe kept updating the romanization from time to time.
    Either that or different teachers changed the romainization to conform with the majority of sources for the art. Looking back at most of the notes I have written in Sin The's hand, he is very consistent with the use of "chien" instead of "chuan" or "quan" so I guess that's reflective the dilect he and/or his teachers spoke.
    Last edited by Judge Pen; 12-12-2012 at 11:46 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  10. #17950
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    Maybe the pronunciation isn't a big deal to some, but I can actually see where it is important to others. I actually have a pet peeve about the way people pronounce "Appalachia." Being born and raised in those mountains, I know the proper pronunciation to be "Apple-at-cha" but others, usually trying to sound educated, pronounce it "Apple-a-sha" Really it's not a big difference, but I know a little about your perspective as soon as I hear you pronounce this word. I know if you are really familiar with the culture (or at least are giving an effort to try to be) or if you learned about it in some sociology or geography class. I expect the same is true with the Chinese names. You know if they learned it from a teacher with a firm understanding of the culture from which the art arose(or are at least making an effort) or from a teacher who learned it through a different background. Not that it affects the validity of the techniques or one’s ability to apply it but it raises a red-flag that wouldn't be there otherwise. Just my .2 cents.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  11. #17951
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    Just curious, how do you define the terms kung fu and/or karate?
    ...or is there something i have missed a glimpse of phantoms in the mist. Traveling down a dusty road bent forward with this heavy load..

  12. #17952
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    Quote Originally Posted by shen ku View Post
    Just curious, how do you define the terms kung fu and/or karate?
    Elaborate dude...
    Message: Due to the ongoing Recession, God has decided the light at the end of the tunnel will be shut off due to power costs. That is all.

  13. #17953
    Quote Originally Posted by shen ku View Post
    Just curious, how do you define the terms kung fu and/or karate?

    kung fu = time and effort put forth. or chinese martial arts.
    karate = china method of fighting from japan.
    best,

    bruce

    Happy indeed we live,
    friendly amidst the hostile.
    Amidst hostile men
    we dwell free from hatred.

    http://youtube.com/profile?user=brucereiter

  14. #17954
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    Maybe the pronunciation isn't a big deal to some, but I can actually see where it is important to others. I actually have a pet peeve about the way people pronounce "Appalachia." Being born and raised in those mountains, I know the proper pronunciation to be "Apple-at-cha" but others, usually trying to sound educated, pronounce it "Apple-a-sha" Really it's not a big difference, but I know a little about your perspective as soon as I hear you pronounce this word. I know if you are really familiar with the culture (or at least are giving an effort to try to be) or if you learned about it in some sociology or geography class. I expect the same is true with the Chinese names. You know if they learned it from a teacher with a firm understanding of the culture from which the art arose(or are at least making an effort) or from a teacher who learned it through a different background. Not that it affects the validity of the techniques or one’s ability to apply it but it raises a red-flag that wouldn't be there otherwise. Just my .2 cents.
    My actual opinion on the subject is this; even outside of just doing Gong Fu, f you are going to go the effort of wearing Chinese clothes, putting up Chinese decorations, participating in Chinese ceremonies like all that is some how traditional, they why butcher without care or hesitation a part of the culture that is way more important to that culture, its language, than all of that other stuff combined?

    Just have an american school that teaches Chinese martial arts with American names and blue jeans and a t-shirt or something. It's not about having our panties in a bunch or being "PC", it's about treating the culture as a whole with respect and not ****ting on the parts that aren't important too you.

    If you've never been educated in the Chinese language, then that's cool, but when you have been exposed to proper pinyin and Hanzi and even proper pronunciation, why not alter your incorrect habits and information? It can only help your students.

  15. #17955
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    OP I agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

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