Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Kellen Bassette]

kung fu = time and effort put forth. or chinese martial arts.
karate = china method of fighting from japan.

Got to point out Karate is Okinawan, not Japanese. It began in Okinawa and was later brought to Japan.

I know this seems like a technicality, but the Kingdom of Ryukyu was a separate culture prior to Japanese occupation.

Japanese Karate has developed a different flavor than traditional Okinawan Karate.

Referring to Karate as being "Japanese" would be akin to referring to Tibetan arts as "Chinese."

[Leto]

As I was browsing SD material like a year ago I took notice of an inconsistency in spelling and pronunciation? Was it always like that or did it SKT just evolve in that and some students chose to just keep going with what they originally learned, hence the mishmash thing?

Hard to say. The document from the early 80's where Sin The wrote out his entire curriculum has some inconsistencies. He does use "chien" for fist everywhere but one place, where he uses "kune" instead. Of course in that case, though it is the Chinese character for "fist", he translates it as "wings". Though elsewhere on the document there is the actual character for "wings" and he translates it as "tse". He spells crane two different ways on this same document, in one place spelling it "ho" and another place "he". In the material I received as a CSC student, they spelled it "hao". In another place he uses "he" for the word for "dove", which is pronounced exactly as the word for crane in mandarin. They are little things, but they indicate there has always been some mishmash of language and spellings, and at least at the time he was not concerned about it. As time went on, and material got added from outside sources, and students learned about other Chinese styles and words, I think mandarin and the standard romanization systems started popping up as well. When I was there, we had some pinyin, some wade giles, and some Sin The whatever it is, and nobody really knew how to pronounce anything. Even the senior/elder masters didn't pronounce some things correctly (easy words/names like tang lang and wang lang), and didn't know what the names of some of the forms really mean.

[Syn7]

So what is SKTs first language? He is presented as if he's some genius nuclear physicist that simply decided, in his ever so humble ways, to teach MA. I'm just not understanding what the disconnect is all about. I mean if you understand physics then you know math. If you understand math, linguistics should be a lil easier for you. You following me? So much of the whole SKT phenomenon is just so... "off".

I'm trying to say this nicely....

Must...... resist...... urge.........

[tattooedmonk]

Found someone inexpensive to put all the SD stuff I have on VHS to DVD!

[kwaichang]

GMT speaks 7 languages , I believe it is english spanish french german italian, more than one dialect of chinese not sure of the others , cant remember , not defending just sayin, busted again. KC

[sean_stonehart]

GMT speaks 7 languages , I believe it is english spanish french german italian, more than one dialect of chinese not sure of the others , cant remember , not defending just sayin, busted again. KC

Well... yeah true, that's what is said. But look what happened with other things that have been said...

Just saying...

[kwaichang]

However , I have witnessed the German , Spanish and of course english , and 2 dialects of chinese. not the Italian or french though. KC

[sean_stonehart]

However , I have witnessed the German , Spanish and of course english , and 2 dialects of chinese. not the Italian or french though. KC

German... fluent, conversational, survival or ordering a beer & sausage? Spanish... fluent, conversational, survival or ordering a beer & nachos?

There are pretty big differences involved there.

Chinese... Mandarin & most likely Hokkien. Not a big suprise there. I imagine he also at least has a working understanding of Behasa or whatever the local Indo dialect is in that area as well.

[Iron Palm]

German... fluent, conversational, survival or ordering a beer & sausage? Spanish... fluent, conversational, survival or ordering a beer & nachos?

There are pretty big differences involved there.

Chinese... Mandarin & most likely Hokkien. Not a big suprise there. I imagine he also at least has a working understanding of Behasa or whatever the local Indo dialect is in that area as well.

I've seen him carry a conversation with native Spanish speakers, but I actually wonder about his proficiency in Chinese languages. I don't know any Mandarin or anything myself, but I've seen some students who do have difficulty in talking to him.

Maybe it's a dialect thing, but some of his handwritten notes have bizarre-seeming translations as well. One example that comes to mind was a posture name along the lines of "Pequefo (sp?) Enters the Forest". I have never been able to find any mention anywhere of a "pequefo" outside of GMT's explanation of it being some kind of eagle/hawk-like bird. Additional oddities include references to a "Golden Cyborg" performing various actions in SD's version of Chen Tai Chi.

I find it unlikely that cyborgs are in any way relevant to the practice of Chen Tai Chi. However, I think the phrase could roughly correspond to what some non-SD styles refer to as a "golden statue." But as Syn7 and others have pointed out, he's supposed to hold a bachelor's and half a masters from an American university, and I'd expect him to be able to translate the word "statue".

I know from experience that his English is pretty good, so I'm guessing any difficulty would be on the Chinese side of whatever original he was attempting to translate from. Keep in mind these translations are written in his own hand and featured on photocopies of notes handed out as recently as in the last 5 years.

[deuseiri]

I've seen him carry a conversation with native Spanish speakers, but I actually wonder about his proficiency in Chinese languages. I don't know any Mandarin or anything myself, but I've seen some students who do have difficulty in talking to him.

Maybe it's a dialect thing, but some of his handwritten notes have bizarre-seeming translations as well. One example that comes to mind was a posture name along the lines of "Pequefo (sp?) Enters the Forest". I have never been able to find any mention anywhere of a "pequefo" outside of GMT's explanation of it being some kind of eagle/hawk-like bird. Additional oddities include references to a "Golden Cyborg" performing various actions in SD's version of Chen Tai Chi.

I find it unlikely that cyborgs are in any way relevant to the practice of Chen Tai Chi. However, I think the phrase could roughly correspond to what some non-SD styles refer to as a "golden statue." But as Syn7 and others have pointed out, he's supposed to hold a bachelor's and half a masters from an American university, and I'd expect him to be able to translate the word "statue".

I know from experience that his English is pretty good, so I'm guessing any difficulty would be on the Chinese side of whatever original he was attempting to translate from. Keep in mind these translations are written in his own hand and featured on photocopies of notes handed out as recently as in the last 5 years.

The pequefo thing is a pun on "pick-a-fowl". I've heard it was because he at the time didn't know the English name of the bird to describe it. I think it refers to a sparrowhawk.

I've personally heard SKT engage in conversations in English, Mandarin, and Spanish. He seemed to be reasonable fluency in them. I went on one of the China trips and he communicated throughout the trip with people. I'm not sure about the specific dialects of Chinese he spoke aside from Mandarin.

The golden cyborg thing is also called the "golden metal man" -- the explanations I've heard compare it to a metal statue that comes to life (kind of like a golem).

[sean_stonehart]

The golden cyborg thing is also called the "golden metal man" -- the explanations I've heard compare it to a metal statue that comes to life (kind of like a golem).

I have no idea where the "golden cyborg" transliteration came from, but it should be Arhat... Jin Gang Da Dui ... Arhat Pounds the Mortar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Bz3uIuBXU

[themeecer]

I have never been able to find any mention anywhere of a "pequefo" outside of GMT's explanation of it being some kind of eagle/hawk-like bird.

It was the combination of the English words pheasant, quail, and fowl. I heard it pronounced as phequefo.

[Golden Arms]

Do you guys have any idea how crazy these conversations and talking points sound to someone that trains real kung fu? If I want to know more about something in Pak Mei I simply ask my Sifu, the same held true in Hung Gar (none of this conjecture, deification, and speaking for my Sifu is/was necessary).

The saying "jack of all trades, master of none" also comes to mind.

I would be genuinely curious what a long time SD'er would experience if they took just one of the styles/systems they claim to have learned and traveled to meet a legitimate teacher of said system. If what you are learning is authentic, then you should have no reservations about doing so, nor should you expect to be exposed to much that you have not already become familiar with. I do this whenever I get with Hung Gar and the Hakka martial arts.

[kwaichang]

Golden arms some of us have trained in other systems prior to SD. I trained Hung Gar , Tang Lang and Bei He, for 10-12 years privately. So I have no prob with any of that I learned in SD. KC

[themeecer]

Do you guys have any idea how crazy these conversations and talking points sound to someone that trains real kung fu? If I want to know more about something in Pak Mei I simply ask my Sifu, the same held true in Hung Gar (none of this conjecture, deification, and speaking for my Sifu is/was necessary).

The saying "jack of all trades, master of none" also comes to mind.

I would be genuinely curious what a long time SD'er would experience if they took just one of the styles/systems they claim to have learned and traveled to meet a legitimate teacher of said system. If what you are learning is authentic, then you should have no reservations about doing so, nor should you expect to be exposed to much that you have not already become familiar with. I do this whenever I get with Hung Gar and the Hakka martial arts.

And the merry go round spins again.

Do you have any idea how we don't give a flying flip what you think? I wouldn't pay 5 cents for yours or many other's approval on here. You and your pristine lineage wasn't there when I had to defend myself numerous times in the past. The training I received through GMT was; it did me well.
(It was my turn to show my red today, kwaichang)

This is a fun trip down memory lane discussing these old translations. I still tell my students the story about phequefo.