Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Shaolin Wookie]

It looks like Grooms and the Atlanta schools have officially gone on their own. Sin The and Shaolin-Do are nowhere on their websites. It's my understanding that Grooms sent Sin The a letter explaining that based on the Soard's and Bill Leonard's behavior and Sin The's support of them and the revelations contained in the deposition regarding made up material that they did not desire to be affiliated any longer.

I know the schools have parted from the system. I think it's a good idea.

For most students, though, I don't think any of that matters (the letter). I haven't heard of it, but I know the schools have split. Most of our classmates don't know who the Soards and Bill Leonard are. They know of Sin The', but know nothing about him (other than what he has claimed on websites and contradicted under oath). 18K posts into this thread, and I still don't know jack **** about him, and I don't care much about what he's done (or not done) for other people I'll never meet who I also know nothing about. For those who know a little about the split, most are more excited about the new opportunities to develop the school than about scrapping SD. It's not a negative thing. It's an opportunity.

Atlanta is pretty rejuvenated from what I gather--more drilling, practicality, etc., much I suppose the result of the Kuntao-Silat club there. I can't wait to get back into the action!

While studying in Atlanta, I've met many practitioners from outside arts. I've studied Indonesian and Fillipino arts, as well as studied with other amazing non-SD CMA teachers, and tied what I've learned into my practice, and learned quite a bit. These people do not blush when walking into the school, and they don't duck their heads and run to their cars in embarrassment when leaving. I don't know why there's so much politicking in SD, but good riddance to the politicking, and good luck to all of my fellow practitioners.

Masters Nance and Mullins were my two favorite SD masters from "outside" schools (they always felt like training brothers). I hope they remain friendly to Atlanta. Master Nance was always warm, friendly, and he even smiled when he applied a painful wrist lock or punched you in the ribs when demonstrating. His students were class acts as well. As for Master Mullins, he had lots of martial knowledge, and I enjoyed his lessons (and still practice his principles).

I suppose that some might be surprised to find SD absent from CSC sites in the future, but does the "disappearance" of GM Sin and SD from CSC websites really even matter? On how many SD sites were Grooms and the Atlanta School masters listed as practitioners before the split? A little reciprocity doesn't necessarily entail ill-will.

As for the fraud part, and the "made-up" **** clause, I think this shows character. The following are my thoughts, not those of my teachers.

Sometimes you have to look a BS'er in the eye, put aside decorum, and ask: "Are you ****ing kidding me?"

[Shaolin Wookie]

To be honest, I always believed that the Atlanta schools had the courage to take a kind of stand against the BS. I won't speak for my teachers' motivations, but I'm glad that I was right.

I'm not trying to poke the bear. I'm just trying to stress the positive aspects of blazing a new trail and scrapping unnecessary baggage. I've studied in Atlanta for nearly a decade, and ten years in I still feel excited to go learn something new (and practice it until it becomes old).

[MasterKiller]

Sometimes you have to look a BS'er in the eye, put aside decorum, and ask: "Are you ****ing kidding me?"

As opposed to, say, defiantly defending a BSer in the face of overwhelming evidence for 10 years...?

[Shaolin Wookie]

That's the funny part of internet forums. If you question GM The' for ten years, but study the art, MK assumes that you've been defending him for ten years.

LOL. What a maroon.
From one of my first posts, ever:

I do Shaolin-Do right now, under a Master who I really respect, both for his skill and his teaching ability. I've struggled with the Do for a while for different reasons. Some people know this...some don't. I'm sure some don't care.

Here's the skinny of it. I don't like the advancement system--I think it's too easy for some slackers to advance. I understand the business aspect of the school, believe me I do. But it makes me wonder if it's the right place for me, as an individual. Everyone asks me why I don't advance....I say, remembering a form is not "knowing" a form. They seem kind of bewildered by my reply. That always surprises me. Some of you have my same outlook. But I'm looking for outside opinions here as well. Plenty of posters in the past 7 years have voiced this same complaint. So I'm sure it's nothing new.

I don't care what real Shaolin is. I don't care what fake Shaolin is. I picked the Do because they're the only school that teaches 8 Immortals (so you know I'm in it for a lot of the art in martial arts as well)--but it takes forever to get there, and I might benefit myself better by looking about. I'm not willing to advance myself to higher ranks b/c I feel I should be able to use every skill I've been given so far. And ****.....I don't think there are a lot of people in SD that can make that claim. Not to brag or get a big head...but some of my forms look better than people's who have been doing this for years longer. What's up with that? Am I mistaken? Let's all be honest---I'm not calling anyone out.....I just need some kind of constructive input. From what I know, 8 Immortals just builds on the basics to a more extreme level. But a lot of "disciples" come back to other lower ranking students and say....hey, can you show me that form again....I forgot part of it. My heart just tells me.....look around Daniel San......how're you going to build on basics in this environment where basics are lost....or forgotten.....

That really gets me. It makes me question the validity of the system as it's taught. The question is--do I want to make the commitment to learn the Do for some-odd years to get Drunken Boxing....and weather the BS it's going to take to get there? Has anyone else, Do or non-Do, done the same, and considered it worthwhile?

I respect and admire the friggin' hell out of my SD teacher. He's amazing....especially regarding awareness, application, fighting acumen, pressure points, etc. He can walk up to you, tap you on the arm, and make it go numb for like three minutes. It's happened to me, firsthand. So it's not all hype. And my master seems to discard anything "Out-there." But as for the Soards---they seem hokey to me. And the CSC is an offshoot of hte Soards. As for GM The'....that new website pretty much sums it up for me.....makes me think he's got something to prove to me.....

And before anyone rips me for that---I've never met the guy. Some of his students impress me. A lot don't. That gives me doubts as to his efficacy....therefore I have a responsibility to doubt, I think.

I have questions....man....lots of 'em about the system as a whole. Do I want to be a part of a chain with so much.....history...I guess I'd call it.....

People talk about GM Sin like he's their best friend....but nobody here (in ATL) who does so really has frequent contact with him (on a weekly, even monthly basis...or am I wrong?). I'm always suspicious of acquaintances like this......via someone-told-me-this, I-heard-this-from-so-and-so means. He's around 1nc every 6 months, and occasionally for a festival class. I've been guilty of it, every once and a while.........

Well, he's coming to ATL, and I'm gonna be there. No lie--if I'm not impressed by him, then I will not be studying with SD anymore. I'm not trying to say I could beat the man up...and the hype he has to live up to is nothing if not monumental. If he's as good as you SD vets say, then there's nothing to worry about. I'll stick with it. Otherwise, I'm off to start anew. He's already got a monumental task ahead of him, 'cuz festival classes aren't always structured well.

Well, we'll see how it goes......



I just don't know, man....

Anyhow, I made that festival class but wasn't very impressed (1st Golden Leopard, perhaps?). I talked to my teacher, thought about my goals, and I looked around. I studied several other arts, but couldn't find a better teacher. So I just stuck with my teacher---he's quite talented, and an excellent MA. I decided to forget the hype and stick with a solid MA teacher, whatever the lineage. I met GM The' four times after that. He kicked me out of my first degree black sparring test, and he was very kind to me when I injured my shoulder on my two-on-one second degree test. Very kind, I might stress. He showed concern, and I knew that he meant it. Nice guy in person. Seems to have made some poor business decisions, however. Nothing personal, except for the fraud (or the perjury, whichever fits).

[MasterKiller]

That's the funny part of internet forums. If you question GM The' for ten years, but study the art, MK assumes that you've been defending him for ten years.

LOL. What a maroon.

At least KC believed in what he was taught. You say you didn't, but kept it up anyway. For TEN years, mind you.

You can try to intellectualize it anyway you want, but that makes you more of a maroon than anyone else on this board. Maybe in the history of the internet.

To put it in academic terms, it's like you always wanted to study Sacred Theology, but spent 10 years getting a PhD in Scientology just because it was close enough.

[kwaichang]

I believed and believe in what SD I did and do. I can make it work remember its not the art but the Artist. You can paint a picture that looks exactly like the mona Lisa but you are never going to be the original Master Artist.
I could make it work and could apply my mechanics I gained from my Tang Lang and Hung Jia to what I was taught. I like SD I dont like all of it though. That is all. KC

[bodhi warrior]

You know...the only external material I practice is the sd material that was allegedly made up. I love it. It's simple, it strengthens the body, and it's practical. And I'm talking about material that is only found in sd and Hiang The's school. In addition I practice taichi 64, classical bagua, hsing ie. I know that those internal forms could have been picked up from books. But I still love doing them. If only sin the would have stayed with his material instead of copying forms from vcd's, DVDs and tapes. And of course the glorified history. Things would be so different.

[Shaolin Wookie]

At least KC believed in what he was taught. You say you didn't, but kept it up anyway. For TEN years, mind you.

You can try to intellectualize it anyway you want, but that makes you more of a maroon than anyone else on this board. Maybe in the history of the internet.

To put it in academic terms, it's like you always wanted to study Sacred Theology, but spent 10 years getting a PhD in Scientology just because it was close enough.

Right, and by that same measure at least jihadists actually believe in Islam enough to die for it....
Lofl. That's a strange religious sentiment. Luckily I don't have to believe in people. I just have to test them. Punches don't land just because you believe in your teacher. So what does a distrust of a
Man I've met 4 times count for? Not much.

As for my actual teacher, I certainly don't need to defend him, lol. I just show up willing to learn from the best

And I've already learned some 8 immortals due to curriculum changes here. Mission accomplished

Good luck with life mk. I hope you find some piece of mind somewhere.

[MasterKiller]

And I've already learned some 8 immortals due to curriculum changes here. Mission accomplished.

Made up or poorly copied from a book Eight Immortals, no less. Well done.

[shen ku]

everything is made up... but... who cares

[beng]

You can believe in, support and us a product without necessarily buy into the brand so to speak. JMO

[MasterKiller]

You can believe in, support and us a product without necessarily buy into the brand so to speak. JMO

Grasshopper: "Sir, I have wanted to learn 8 Immortals Kung Fu my whole life. Do you teach it?"

Ambiguously Asian Master: "Of course! I made up a form yesterday and decided to call it 8 Immortals. It's not really Kung Fu, though. But it almost is!"

Grasshopper: "Close enough! Sign me up!"

[kwaichang]

No one could make up something this bad.
http://youtu.be/sU8xVMwzxS4

[kwaichang]

How it should be performed.
http://youtu.be/kWA57Vnchhs

[themindreader]

If the rumor of the letter telling sin the he split also is true, then I think the reasons listed make the most sense thee specially sin the stating under oath he made stuff up.

From sin the's perspective he probably thinks all I do is fly in tell weird stories, collect my appearance fees, if "I kick out the soards all I am doing is not collecting my fee and not telling my stories, why are they mad at me the soards will continue to teach?"

I can't believe grooms split he was such a suck up, he used to run sin the's tourney, I thought he was a *****. He was almost a arrogant as Leonard without the fighting skills.

Mullins was also a huge suck up I can't count how many dinners he arranged for sin the to get a chance to grace his presence. He used to tell his stiludents about sin the supernatural abilities And believed it.

I wonder how they feel now about all that wasted sucking up?